Crampons and the White Dragon [DM question...]

[Jenck]

I'm DM of a party that is heading to fight an Adult White Dragon next session and I think I shot myself in the foot...

The dragon lives in a set of ice and stone caverns it created in a glacier on the side of a mountain. I've been developing this lair for a couple weeks, adding icy slopes and slippery areas in the twisting caverns. Additionally, a pack of Winter Wolves has taken up residence in the outermost areas of the caverns, and the dragon is loosely allied with them, using them for scouting and herding mammoths or giant elk. In turn he lets them take their own kills from the herds when he has had his fill. The dragon rarely uses the entrance by the Winter Wolves anymore, preferring a new entrance/exit he burrowed out in the top of the main chamber deep in the mountain.

Here's the foot-shooting part: Many days ago in-game (but months ago in real life, which is why I forgot), when the party was in a large town in the area, the party hired a couple of guides to help them find a dwarven stronghold. The guides helped the party get equipped for the journey to the stronghold and strongly recommended to the party that they all buy cold weather gear and crampons for their feet for the anticipated ice and rock climbing in the frozen mountains. They all took this advice and now all have cold weather gear and crampons.

I just now realized this and put it together that the hazards I've been developing in the dragon lair/caverns will be trivial since the party has gear to negate much of the hazards: crampons to avoid falling on sloped ice, cold weather gear to not be affected by the freezing fog and precipitation the dragon makes near his lair. Of course, I was the one who (through an NPC) recommended the gear. I don't think any players would have thought of it if I hadn't had the guides suggest it. I'm not sorry I did it; at the time, it felt right.

But I still want the dragon's lair to feel dangerous beyond the fact that there's a dragon in it. I've been designing challenges like freezing sleet and slick, icy slopes as they explore the caverns, but with crampons and cold gear they won't be challenged.

But I also don't want to somehow remove the benefit of the gear. It has come in handy a couple times in their trek, and I don't want to suddenly have it less (or in-) effective.

Does anyone have any advice for what I should do?

• Let them succeed with relative ease due to the equipment?
• Create different hazards that they can't get past with the gear? (Falling ice shards? a freezing pool of water? Ice pits?)
• Have the cold be magical and therefore affect them more than normal outdoor cold? (So the gear still has a benefit but it's reduced in the dragon's lair.)

I want to be fair to the players and help create a space for, not spoil, their fun.

 

[Quickleaf]

I just now realized this and put it together that the hazards I've been developing in the dragon lair/caverns will be trivial since the party has gear to negate much of the hazards: crampons to avoid falling on sloped ice, cold weather gear to not be affected by the freezing fog and precipitation the dragon makes near his lair. Of course, I was the one who (through an NPC) recommended the gear. I don't think any players would have thought of it if I hadn't had the guides suggest it. I'm not sorry I did it; at the time, it felt right.

Crampons overcome icy slopes in regular mountain travel, but if you're buffeted by strong winds or a dragon's wings/tail or struck by a boulder and start falling, you don't rely on crampons to stop your descent. Once you start falling/tumbling, you rely on three things to stop yourself: a rope/anchor system, an ice pick/axe, and your own physical maneuvering to press yourself flat and control your slide toward a natural stopping point in the terrain. Or, in D&D, magic.

So you can add a push effect to the dragon's wing/tail attack, add strong alpine winds, or even a small avalanche forcing a DEX save. A creature struck begins sliding down mountain and has a choice of how to arrest its fall using its reaction: (1) trust the rope system your party set up, possibly requiring a STR save from the PC who they're roped to in a rope-buddy system, (2) make a Strength (Athletics) check using an ice pick/axe to arrest the fall, or (3) make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Wisdom (Survival) check to maneuver yourself toward a natural stopping point in the terrain. Feather fall would obviously be an option too. Each of these could have different consequences for failure to make it interesting. IF #1 fails, then you take a little falling damage but your ally starts falling too, potentially triggering a domino effect. If #2 fails, your ice axe might get torn from your hand and you take lots of falling damage. If #3 fails, you might take a little falling damage and land in a frosty fissure that connects to the dragon's cavernous lair and is used by Winter Wolves.

But I still want the dragon's lair to feel dangerous beyond the fact that there's a dragon in it. I've been designing challenges like freezing sleet and slick, icy slopes as they explore the caverns, but with crampons and cold gear they won't be challenged.

(snip)

[*]Have the cold be magical and therefore affect them more than normal outdoor cold? (So the gear still has a benefit but it's reduced in the dragon's lair.)

Well, normally cold weather does not inflict cold damage; instead, it inflicts exhaustion. So, for example, the white dragon's "freezing fog" lair action is magical because it's inflicting cold damage. I'd have the cold weather gear grant the PCs advantage on their saving throws against "freezing fog."

Does anyone have any advice for what I should do?

Create different hazards that they can't get past with the gear? (Falling ice shards? a freezing pool of water? Ice pits?)

I want to be fair to the players and help create a space for, not spoil, their fun.

You want to include hazards (a) that are entirely overcome by their preparation, and explicitly tell them it's their crampons making the slippery slope inconsequential; (b) that their gear assists them against but doesn't obviate rolling (e.g. "freezing fog"); and (c) that their gear doesn't apply toward at all. Include all of the above.

 

[Dausuul]

Increase the difficulty of some (but not all) of the hazards. Allow their gear to get them through some hazards without trouble (and plan on that basis), while in other hazards their gear is the only thing that gives them a chance. Thus, they feel they are reaping the benefits of their foresight, while still being suitably challenged.

(Also, I initially misread the title of this thread as something slightly different. I was confused by the dragon being white instead of red, and trying to figure out what that was a euphemism for...)

 

[Quartz]

Let them celebrate their astute following of the advice they were given. Tell them how difficult things would be if they didn't have crampons etc. Give them their success, but the gear doesn't solve all the problems.

After the PCs have passed an easy check or two throw the dragon's pet Rust Monsters at them. They did bring spares, didn't they?

 

[DaveBStevens]

Let them celebrate their astute following of the advice they were given. Tell them how difficult things would be if they didn't have crampons etc. Give them their success, but the gear doesn't solve all the problems.

I agree. I also like your idea of a freezing pool of water. Perhaps there is a narrow ledge which skirts the pool and a failed DEX save might mean a PC falls in. Their heavy winter coat would quickly absorb water and drag them down if they don't take it off. If they are roped together then the character either side might need to make a STR save or be pulled in as well.

The PC(s) would need to remove their heavy winter overcoat or be dragged under (you could assume that our mighty heroes could just about get out with their armour and weapons but not with the waterlogged heavy winter coat as well!).

Perhaps a DEX save with a DC of 12 to remove their coat. Removing the coat allows the character to swim normally (it falls to the bottom of the pool).

If they fail to remove their coat then make a DEX saving throw to see if they manage to grab a breath for another attempt. If they fail their DEX save they have enough air for one more attempt (the rules for holding your breath in the PHB are not used as the freezing cold water gives the PC limited time/attempts before their body shuts down from the cold).

Other characters could help by throwing them something to hang onto such as a rope. Characters that remove their own coats could jump in to help, giving the drowning character Advantage on attempts to remove their coat and to grab a breath.

 

[jasper]

Reduce some of the dc by 5 due to the foot wear. Reduce some of the cold weather effects. Others keep the same by the dragon make it extra difficult.
add. Crampons reduce movement by 10 feet. If you dash, run, etc you get no benefit from them.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

As suggested, the cold weather gear does not negate magically cold fog. Advantage on saving throws against it may be appropriate though. Likewise, the crampons would only really give advantage on strength and dex saves vs slipping and falling from sudden movement from stuff like being shoved etc.

Even then? The dragon could easily take other steps, like clinging to icy walls, burrowing through snow and ice, or even have it's laid be partially built on a frozen lake. Even if the players do manage to kill the dragon without difficulty, nothing says the struggle couldn't be partially trying to figure out how to actually get the treasure: put it at the bottom of an icy lake and ask them how they try to go about getting it. Cold weather gear does not prevent hypothermia from freezing water.

 

[Ratskinner]

<snip>

I just now realized this and put it together that the hazards I've been developing in the dragon lair/caverns will be trivial since the party has gear to negate much of the hazards: crampons to avoid falling on sloped ice, cold weather gear to not be affected by the freezing fog and precipitation the dragon makes near his lair. Of course, I was the one who (through an NPC) recommended the gear. I don't think any players would have thought of it if I hadn't had the guides suggest it. I'm not sorry I did it; at the time, it felt right.

IME, give it some time...the players will forget they even have them.

....only half joking. I've had games where the players face a Green Dragon and don't realize they have a potion of Green Dragon Control. (back in the day)

But I still want the dragon's lair to feel dangerous beyond the fact that there's a dragon in it. I've been designing challenges like freezing sleet and slick, icy slopes as they explore the caverns, but with crampons and cold gear they won't be challenged.

But I also don't want to somehow remove the benefit of the gear. It has come in handy a couple times in their trek, and I don't want to suddenly have it less (or in-) effective.

Does anyone have any advice for what I should do?

• Let them succeed with relative ease due to the equipment?
• Create different hazards that they can't get past with the gear? (Falling ice shards? a freezing pool of water? Ice pits?)
• Have the cold be magical and therefore affect them more than normal outdoor cold? (So the gear still has a benefit but it's reduced in the dragon's lair.)

I want to be fair to the players and help create a space for, not spoil, their fun.

Well, there's nothing to say the Dragon doesn't have guardians who watch the slopes. I'd imagine the characters are easy pickings while perched on the side of a mountain. I mean, if you want to cast or shoot, you'll need to let go of the ropes. Crampons or not, that can't be good.

I like the middle of your three suggestions the best. I'd just add Wampus/Yeti, frost vultures, various demons, or other cold-themed minions and challenges.

Traps are also your friend. I'd imagine a white dragon could create all sorts of pits, etc. with only thin ice covering it. Lots of twisted fun to be had there. Nothing but time on his hands...err, claws, anyway.

 

[77IM]

Mountaineering gear may solve some problems, but create others:

• I've never worn crampons, but it looks like walking in them would be very slow, reducing movement to half speed. During a battle, this may be preferable to slipping on ice, but it may not, if you have a good Dexterity (Acrobatics) modifier.
• The rules for a climbing kit actually don't do very much. You can tether yourself to the side of a cliff, so it makes "scale a sheet of ice" into something that takes a long time, but is much lower risk. HOWEVER, "scale a sheet of ice that starts collapsing half-way through while you are being attacked by snow-harpies" is still kind of a problem -- the climbing kit might reduce your falling damage, but might not, depending on the integrity of the ice sheet.
• Cold-weather clothing, in medieval times, could be very thick and cumbersome. I think you could easily impose disadvantage on attack rolls while wearing it. Maybe it takes an action to rip off your mittens and hood, removing the disadvantage, but exposing you to the cold temporarily. Also, thick clothing may penalize Dexterity (Acrobatics).
• Snow goggles could penalize Wisdom (Perception) checks based on sight, and a parka hood may penalize Wisdom (Perception) checks based on hearing. How did those winter wolves get right on top of us???

 

[aco175]

Ice skates lets you fly-by attack, or drive-by rather. OK, now I'm picturing the Hook movie where Robin Williams is surrounded by the boys on roller-blades circling him and attacking. Ice goblins on skates that shoot ninja stars like hockey pucks.