D&D 5E How to Run Combats in a Cavernous Dungeon Without Alerting All NPC's?

[ezo]

Ezo, this is phenomenal, many thanks for taking the time and the interest. It's hugely appreciated. This is going to make things infinitely easier. Even though I'm realizing that I have more space to work with than I thought, leaning in to letting the encounters run their course and the chips fall where they may makes this feel much, much easier.

Honestly, as DM, just run it like you think it would happen if you were viewing it from outside, like watching it unfold in a movie.

If the PCs are making noise, sound echoes and it is likely someone will hear something. Just don't forget to use Passive Perception as a base and utilize group checks for the monsters, not just the PCs.

 

[pukunui]

Again, incredibly helpful breakdown. Really appreciate your taking the time.

No worries. Sorry I didn't have time to do the rest.

 

[Quickleaf]

Oh, man. Quickleaf. Seriously. This is so tremendously helpful, thank you. I should've clarified that each of those squares you see inherent on the map aren't the actual grid. There's a too-feint overlay of a grid that can barely be seen which is the actual Roll20 grid I'm using. Each one of the squares on the map you see here encompasses roughly four grid squares which makes them 10' x 10'. But your point is certainly taken that there's enough space between NPC's overall to have some skirmishes without alerting the entire place. I was thinking less RAW and more, "I can hear a car backfire five blocks away," sort of thing.

This is all to say, the above is extremely helpful and clarifying, many thanks again. Phenomenal community here.

Yeah, I gotcha. Also @pukunui caught that I flubbed it on the giant sizes - it was a giant-size mistake. Heh.

ENWorld is indeed a great community. We can sometimes be opinionated dingdongs, but we're experienced and well-intentioned opinionated dingdongs.

 

[pontinyc]

No worries. Sorry I didn't have time to do the rest.

Nah, kicked my imagination off in just the right way.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

There's some great stuff here, and the only thing I'd like to add (other than to agree that the originally seen squares ought to be giant-sized squares, or 15x15s - it's by far the best scale for this map) is this:

When the PCs make enough noise to "aggro" a 2nd area, don't make that area rush into combat right away round-wise. It seems on the surface that it might be "realistic" to do so, but that's only true in a game-optimizing sense. It seldom makes any real-world sense for a group to react, get organized, and get into battle in only 6-seconds (or a single round). Roll a die (like a d10, say) and have those rounds delay before any new area gets moving to get involved. This would still result in an extremely fast response-time (of less than a minute) but I think that it fits the best middle-ground between what makes sense for the pure rules of the game, and what makes sense to the fallible sentient creatures of the story, if you get what I mean.

I mean how often do you expect that it might go like this:

Bang Crash Boom (the sound of battle, overheard by 4 giants in the next chamber).

Giant 1: "What was that?"
Giant 2: "Sounded like someone fighting."
Giant 1: "Yeah, I know! But who and why?"
Giant 3: "Maybe it was Lunko and Morg. Y'know that they been mad with each other."
Giant 4: "Nah, they made up yesterday, and besides, I'm pretty sure that I heard a zap-zap, like a spell or something."
Giant 2: "Yeah, I heard that too."
Giant 1: "Yup. It was definitely a spell, and some shouting. And something fell."
Giant 3: "Do you think we're being invaded?"
Giant 1 & 4: "Yeah, Yeah. We're being invaded."
Giant 2: "Everyone grab yer clubs, let's go check out what's up and smash any invaders!"
(everyone grabs clubs and makes for the other room).

I mean, that could easily take several six-second rounds, couldn't it? And they all agreed on what they heard and really didn't even argue much.

 

[ezo]

While I completely agree with @FitzTheRuke (and in some of my own comment mentioned things like "arrive 3-4 rounds later" etc.), these are supposed to be militant stone giants it seems, so I would suggest a random d6+2 to determine arrival times myself. Also, definitely factor in the distance! Even the giants going from 5 to 4 using a move+dash would take 2 rounds---if they left immediately when hearing the noise (hence the 3 round minimum). Not all the giants will be awake as well, so that bears some consideration.

I would so keep in mind light sources and line of sight. While the giants will likely have torches, lanterns, and campfires to provide light in areas, the passageways will probably be dark since they have darkvision and would not need the light just when moving.

It also helps me when (on battlemaps), I place the precise location of each creature before the PCs get close to them. I don't imagine that the four giants in area 5 are all just lying on their bedrolls, for instance.

The giants will make noise and won't care probably. So, the PCs should get some advance warning in all likelihood unless you think the giants have a reason to be cautious (like discovering dead comrades!).

Which brings me to a couple more points:

1) Stone giants are NOT stupid. They have INT 10 and WIS 12, so while not brilliant they should be played like having average(ish) brains and act accordingly. When more than two giants are present, they can bottleneck an area, using their reach to their advantage when PCs engage, and have rear ranks throwing stones. Stone giants are particularly deadly with thrown stones!

2) As these are militant and have sufficient numbers, they should have (at least minimal) patrols once in a while. So random encounters could certainly happen.

 

[pontinyc]

There's some great stuff here, and the only thing I'd like to add (other than to agree that the originally seen squares ought to be giant-sized squares, or 15x15s - it's by far the best scale for this map) is this:

When the PCs make enough noise to "aggro" a 2nd area, don't make that area rush into combat right away round-wise. It seems on the surface that it might be "realistic" to do so, but that's only true in a game-optimizing sense. It seldom makes any real-world sense for a group to react, get organized, and get into battle in only 6-seconds (or a single round). Roll a die (like a d10, say) and have those rounds delay before any new area gets moving to get involved. This would still result in an extremely fast response-time (of less than a minute) but I think that it fits the best middle-ground between what makes sense for the pure rules of the game, and what makes sense to the fallible sentient creatures of the story, if you get what I mean.

I mean how often do you expect that it might go like this:

Bang Crash Boom (the sound of battle, overheard by 4 giants in the next chamber).

Giant 1: "What was that?"
Giant 2: "Sounded like someone fighting."
Giant 1: "Yeah, I know! But who and why?"
Giant 3: "Maybe it was Lunko and Morg. Y'know that they been mad with each other."
Giant 4: "Nah, they made up yesterday, and besides, I'm pretty sure that I heard a zap-zap, like a spell or something."
Giant 2: "Yeah, I heard that too."
Giant 1: "Yup. It was definitely a spell, and some shouting. And something fell."
Giant 3: "Do you think we're being invaded?"
Giant 1 & 4: "Yeah, Yeah. We're being invaded."
Giant 2: "Everyone grab yer clubs, let's go check out what's up and smash any invaders!"
(everyone grabs clubs and makes for the other room).

I mean, that could easily take several six-second rounds, couldn't it? And they all agreed on what they heard and really didn't even argue much.

Excellent point, FitztheRuke, thanks. Will definitely be implementing the die roll to quickly help figure out reaction times.

 

[pontinyc]

While I completely agree with @FitzTheRuke (and in some of my own comment mentioned things like "arrive 3-4 rounds later" etc.), these are supposed to be militant stone giants it seems, so I would suggest a random d6+2 to determine arrival times myself. Also, definitely factor in the distance! Even the giants going from 5 to 4 using a move+dash would take 2 rounds---if they left immediately when hearing the noise (hence the 3 round minimum). Not all the giants will be awake as well, so that bears some consideration.

I would so keep in mind light sources and line of sight. While the giants will likely have torches, lanterns, and campfires to provide light in areas, the passageways will probably be dark since they have darkvision and would not need the light just when moving.

It also helps me when (on battlemaps), I place the precise location of each creature before the PCs get close to them. I don't imagine that the four giants in area 5 are all just lying on their bedrolls, for instance.

The giants will make noise and won't care probably. So, the PCs should get some advance warning in all likelihood unless you think the giants have a reason to be cautious (like discovering dead comrades!).

Which brings me to a couple more points:

1) Stone giants are NOT stupid. They have INT 10 and WIS 12, so while not brilliant they should be played like having average(ish) brains and act accordingly. When more than two giants are present, they can bottleneck an area, using their reach to their advantage when PCs engage, and have rear ranks throwing stones. Stone giants are particularly deadly with thrown stones!

2) As these are militant and have sufficient numbers, they should have (at least minimal) patrols once in a while. So random encounters could certainly happen.

Yep, definitely need to have some patrols making rounds. This is a party of five who's slightly over-geared so they can handle a lot. Plus, below this level is when they're going to have to deal with the bbeg so I definitely want some depletion of resources, rather than have them go invisible and sneak past everything and then nuke the him down there.

 

[ezo]

Yep, definitely need to have some patrols making rounds. This is a party of five who's slightly over-geared so they can handle a lot. Plus, below this level is when they're going to have to deal with the bbeg so I definitely want some depletion of resources, rather than have them go invisible and sneak past everything and then nuke the him down there.

When I play I know information is key. I've played spellcasters who cast invisibility on the party rogue and let them scout out an entire "lair", reporting back info on locations, numbers, etc. before the party even goes in.

As a DM, I love it when players do this. I have had a party "sneak" into where the BBEG was to fight at full strength, but then had to fight their way back out! Good stuff.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yep, definitely need to have some patrols making rounds. This is a party of five who's slightly over-geared so they can handle a lot. Plus, below this level is when they're going to have to deal with the bbeg so I definitely want some depletion of resources, rather than have them go invisible and sneak past everything and then nuke the him down there.

The four giants at area 11 seem like good candidates to be a patrol, or two patrols of 2 who've just happened to meet up, on the key.

The groups in the barracks and hall (5 and 12) seem more likely to be static, but 11 just looks like a corridor.