From Bow to Rapier and Shield... how long does it take?

[Strider1973]

Hi everybody,
In my group one of my players plays a dex based elf fighter, who in combat often tries to shift as quickly as possible from using his bow to fighting hand to hand with his rapier and his shield.

My question is: how long does it take him, in terms of rounds, using the rules as written, to change his weapons and to embrace his shield?

I would say that in a round he could toss away (with some care...) his bow, unsheathe his rapier and attack with it, but he couldn't grab and embrace effectively his shield in the same round, because that would require the "Use an Item" Action, or a separate Action anyway.

Infact, I would say that, as long as he keeps attacking with his rapier on his turns, he can't grab and embrace his shield, and I find that it makes sense too.

What would you say, I mean using the rules as written?

Many thanks, happy life and happy gaming!

 

[Quickleaf]

Equipping a shield takes an Action. See PHB p.146 under donning/doffing armor.

Beyond that, 5th edition encourages you not to get hung up on minutiae around changing weapons. It's entirely reasonable for a player to stow a bow on their person and draw a rapier in the same round that they take an Action to attack or equip a shield.

 

[Charlaquin]

According to the rules for donning and doffing armor, you are correct that it takes an action to equip a shield by RAW, and therefore the character could not attack and equip their shield in the same turn (unless he’s a fighter and uses his action surge to do it). As for dropping the bow, drawing the rapier, and attacking, it depends how you interpret the rules about interacting with the environment as part of your action/move, which are not entirely clear. What is clear is that, once per turn, you can do one thing that constitutes such an interaction. What’s not clear is what does or does not constitute such an interaction. It is equally valid to say that dropping the bow is an interaction with the environment as it is to say that it is not. Personally, I would rule that merely dropping the bow is not an intraction, but actually putting it away on one’s person is. So, at my table, the fastest the character could make the switvh would be:

- Turn 1: drop bow for free, draw rapier as an part of the Attack action, attack with rapier or Attack with bow, put bow away as part of movement

- Turn 2: draw shield as part of the action to don it, don shield or draw rapier as part of Attack action, attack with rapier

- Turn 3: pick up bow as part of movement, attack with rapier or draw shield as part of the action to don it, don shield

 

[The Crimson Binome]

As for dropping the bow, drawing the rapier, and attacking, it depends how you interpret the rules about interacting with the environment as part of your action/move, which are not entirely clear. What is clear is that, once per turn, you can do one thing that constitutes such an interaction. What’s not clear is what does or does not constitute such an interaction. It is equally valid to say that dropping the bow is an interaction with the environment as it is to say that it is not.

It's true that this part is ambiguous. Personally, I allow a full weapon swap (stowing and drawing) as one interaction, because I don't want to slow the game with the additional tactical considerations of spending an extra turn or in tracking where the dropped weapon is on the battlefield. I would always encourage a DM to rule in such a way that will promote the kind of gameplay they want to see at their table.

Donning the shield is still a standard action though. That part is not ambiguous.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's true that this part is ambiguous. Personally, I allow a full weapon swap (stowing and drawing) as one interaction, because I don't want to slow the game with the additional tactical considerations of spending an extra turn or in tracking where the dropped weapon is on the battlefield. I would always encourage a DM to rule in such a way that will promote the kind of gameplay they want to see at their table.

Donning the shield is still a standard action though. That part is not ambiguous.

And that’s a well-reasoned, fair approach that is well supported by the RAW. Personally, I like to promote decisions with trade-offs. I like the weighing of options between getting your current weapon away safely, or your other weapon out quickly, but not both. But I definitely appreciate why allowing the full swap is preferable to many others.

 

[5ekyu]

The shield is dead on - RAW an action on or off.

For the drop vs sling interaction debates, there are plenty of vagaries in RAW and then Ssge stuff on dropping gor free etc etc etc...

But I will ask this?

For your game, what do you want combats to be like?

If you say "drop is free but sheathed is an interaction" so that switching bow to sword as an interaction then your fights will see a lot of quick drops, carrying multiple replacements etc. This also extends to other cases - bards choosing flutes do they can buy several cheaply and drop them when switching to weapons etc.

This might net you some moments of tension - if we run we lose all our dropped stuff - fireball vs unattended items on ground - but is that the style you want to encourage (disposable stuff vs stuff that matters to you?)

The non-rules non-action dropping vs in-and-out interaction to me puts a stronger focus on the nuances of the vague interactions yo me than it foes the feel of the scene. I would rather see my scenes showing heroes syomping forward staring down the enemy as they sheathe/sling and draw than a trail of disposable flutes and weapons.

So, methinks thsts how I will run it having seen a campaign of breadcrumbs.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Equipping a shield takes an Action. See PHB p.146 under donning/doffing armor.

Beyond that, 5th edition encourages you not to get hung up on minutiae around changing weapons. It's entirely reasonable for a player to stow a bow on their person and draw a rapier in the same round that they take an Action to attack or equip a shield.

Beyond whether or not it's reasonable in a realism sense, it's simply not important enough from a balance perspective to spend time fiddling over.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I do admit it would be fun...even if it wouldn't change how I ruled this at the table...to see a YouTube video of somebody who had spent hundreds of hours practicing this switch.

 

[ccs]

Now & then it becomes important. When it does? I just charge you your action that round to change your weapons (including shields).
I don't care if you describe that as sheathing/stowing them or dropping them on the ground. Though if you drop them, that's where they'll be - so if you move away from them (or forget to mention picking them back up after the fight)....

My combat rounds aren't uniformly 6 seconds long either. So "But you can't do all that in a mere 6 seconds!" is not a concern.

 

[Al2O3]

If you include moving the shield from your back or whether as an integral part of donning it (like drawing an arrow is a part of making an attack with a bow):

Round 1:
Hold now in one hand, draw rapier as free interaction and attack as action.

Round 2:
Either stow away the rapier as an interaction and attack with bow again, or put away the bow as an interaction and equip shield as an action.