[New DM Question] What about Simultaneous Movement?

[S'mon]

3e was a nightmare with this stuff.

With 5e I feel I have permission to just bodge it.

 

[iserith]

To the OP: If your issue is that you have difficulty aligning the mechanics with the fiction, consider that the two characters who plan to move simpultaneously need to spend some amount of time syncing up. Instead of each running as fast as they can and the one with faster reflexes getting ahead faster, they agree to run on the count of three or some other signal, so they move together, but cannot take full advantage of the 6-second period that a turn approximates as a result.

Right, and I think this is a good skill to develop as a DM and player: "How can I make the fiction work if I accept the mechanical limitations as true?" Then just run down a list of reasonable fictional explanations until you find one that doesn't bother you and go with that. The fiction is highly mutable, especially in an fantasy setting.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Dave, look at what you just said the Dash action does. It allows you to double your movement. It doesn’t actually allow you to move. So, yes, you can Ready a Dash. Then when the trigger happens you’ll have tons of movement and no way to use it, since it’s not your turn.

Granted, that’s kinda dumb, and I wouldn’t fault any DM for ruling that if you Ready a Dash you can also move in response to the trigger, but by a strict reading of RAW it doesn’t work that way.

Not sure I follow.

[SECTION]Ready
Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn so that you can act later in the round using your reaction.[/SECTION]

Are you saying one cannot Dash once the trigger occurs because it is no longer one's turn? That doesn't seem to be what the rule excerpt I've bolded above says. What did I miss?

EDIT: think I figured out how you are interpreting it. You are saying the Dash Action allows the PC to gain extra movement but the PC doesn't actually get the extra movement until he actually Moves. And a PC can only do an action OR a move during Ready. Good grief, I can see myself arguing that as a strict reading of RAW, too, but I can't ever imagine the developers had that in mind RAI. Now I'm caught in a vortex of thinking that RAW Dash is simply Readying doubled movement. Can you Ready a Ready? It's like turtles, all the way down...

 

[Charlaquin]

Not sure I follow.

[SECTION]Ready
Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn so that you can act later in the round using your reaction.[/SECTION]

Are you saying one cannot Dash once the trigger occurs because it is no longer one's turn? That doesn't seem to be what the rule excerpt I've bolded above says. What did I miss?

EDIT: think I figured out how you are interpreting it. You are saying the Dash Action allows the PC to gain extra movement but the PC doesn't actually get the extra movement until he actually Moves.

No, Dash gives you movement immediately, it just that having movement doesn’t do anything on its own. Movement is a resource, measured in feet, that you expend on your turn to change your position. Generally, moving one foot costs one foot of movement, but there are certain special cases such as climbing, swimming, and difficult terrain, which increase the movement cost of moving. There are also other things you can spend movement on, such as ending the Probe condition or getting on or off a mount. Normally, you have an amount of movement equal to your speed. The Dash action gives you additional feet of movement equal to your speed. If you Ready the Dash action, you can use it when the trigger occurs to gain the appropriate amount of extra movement, but since it is not your turn, you can’t spend that movement. Alternatively, you can use the Ready action to move up to your speed (expending movement as necessary) in response to a trigger.

And a PC can only do an action OR a move during Ready. Good grief, I can see myself arguing that as a strict reading of RAW, too, but I can't ever imagine the developers had that in mind RAI. Now I'm caught in a vortex of thinking that RAW Dash is simply Readying doubled movement. Can you Ready a Ready? It's like turtles, all the way down...

I am 99% certain it is RAI, otherwise there would be no need to specify that you can Ready moving up to your speed- if the Dash action allowed you to move up to twice your speed, it would always be a superior option to Ready over moving up to your speed.

 

[Charlaquin]

Right, and I think this is a good skill to develop as a DM and player: "How can I make the fiction work if I accept the mechanical limitations as true?" Then just run down a list of reasonable fictional explanations until you find one that doesn't bother you and go with that. The fiction is highly mutable, especially in an fantasy setting.

So much this.

 

[Shiroiken]

One of the things that 5E removed from the 3E style initiative was the Delay option. You could choose to wait to take your action until a later point in order to tactically take advantage. In your first example, the driver could have waited until just before the other character, so that the goblins couldn't attack him between their initiatives. While Delay wasn't always a great choice, it did allow for some tactical choices. It was removed in order to keep the game simple, but I feel that you could add it back in with minimal difficulty.

As for the example, you might have used a group check instead of just calling for initiative immediately. If the majority of the party succeed on a Str/Athletics DC: 10, for example, they get close/past the goblins before starting the initiative, giving them a chance to use their strategy. Ideally they want to run just underneath the bridge first, then run past, since they couldn't shoot straight down.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

No, Dash gives you movement immediately, it just that having movement doesn’t do anything on its own. Movement is a resource, measured in feet, that you expend on your turn to change your position. Generally, moving one foot costs one foot of movement, but there are certain special cases such as climbing, swimming, and difficult terrain, which increase the movement cost of moving. There are also other things you can spend movement on, such as ending the Probe condition or getting on or off a mount. Normally, you have an amount of movement equal to your speed. The Dash action gives you additional feet of movement equal to your speed. If you Ready the Dash action, you can use it when the trigger occurs to gain the appropriate amount of extra movement, but since it is not your turn, you can’t spend that movement. Alternatively, you can use the Ready action to move up to your speed (expending movement as necessary) in response to a trigger.


I am 99% certain it is RAI, otherwise there would be no need to specify that you can Ready moving up to your speed- if the Dash action allowed you to move up to twice your speed, it would always be a superior option to Ready over moving up to your speed.

Got it. You are correct sir!

Thanks for helping me wrap my mind around it.

 

[Hriston]

As others have mentioned, D&D’s initiative system doesn’t handle simultaneous resolution well. In fact, its design seems to prioritize the prevention of anything having to be resolved simultaneously. If your group is more comfortable with simultaneity, however, DMG, p 270 has a side initiative variant that would have allowed your group to coordinate more effectively. I like DEX bonuses to matter , but a variation on side initiative I’d like to try is for everyone to roll DEX checks as normal, then any PCs that rolled higher than the monster(s) go, then the monster(s) go(es), then all the PCs go, then the monster(s) go(es), etc.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There is an episode of Star Trek Enterprise where the crew runs into genetically altered 'perfect' people. There is a scene where a "perfect" person tries to show the captain why he is better. He tells the captain "I am going to attack you now," then does so and grabs him...then releases him and puts up his hands. It wwas just to show, that even with warning you can't react as fast as these guys...


I used that in a 3.5 game by having a paragon (meaning high dex and +12 insight bonus to initiative) doing the same thing...

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

the rules aren't there to get in the way of playing the game. If they do, move the rules OUT of the way.