Do orcs in gaming display parallels to colonialist propaganda?

[Sadras]

However, the next time a LotR movie gets made, maybe the orcs could all be played by white actors and everyone else by minority actors? After all, if race is totally unimportant, then a Chinese Frodo shouldn't bother anyone at all.

I'm still waiting for a hearing-impaired transvestite muslim superman who for health reasons follows a gluten-free diet or for the sinbad role to be played by a Philipino actor.

As for orcs...this is not 1970 or 1980, many people are playing 5e - orcs have nothing to do with colonialism anymore...it's like stereotyping an actual people for all their ills/bad deeds in their past.

EDIT: Some ppl on this thread have posted some amazing story-concepts for orcs. I don't see colonialism, I see so many games/settings/ideas I want to explore.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Martin Luther King, Jr., "Letter from Birmingham City Jail":

First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."

Don't you think that is a bit much? I said my critique was fairly moderate. I don't think Martin Luther King Jr. had this kind of conversation about evil orcs or colonialist orc tropes in mind when he wrote that letter.

 

[darkbard]

Don't you think that is a bit much? I said my critique was fairly moderate. I don't think Martin Luther King Jr. had this kind of conversation about evil orcs or colonialist orc tropes in mind when he wrote that letter.

Honestly, no, I don't consider it a bit much. I think calls for moderation should always consider what they're actually calling for. MLK's admonition is to remember the inherent deleterious values conveyed by such a call for "moderation." This is no different than the other posts here that ask you to consider your motivations (perhaps those that escape your own conscious awareness).

 

[Bedrockgames]

Honestly, no, I don't consider it a bit much. I think calls for moderation should always consider what they're actually calling for. MLK's admonition is to remember the inherent deleterious values conveyed by such a call for "moderation." This is no different than the other posts here that ask you to consider your motivations (perhaps those that escape your own conscious awareness).

I agree with the letter, I don't agree with its application here at all though.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But, that's the issue isn't it [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION]? What would be the problem with having Ronnie Chang play Frodo? I mean, Elijah Wood isn't English but there was no problem with having him play Frodo. Does Tolkien even really physically describe hobbits? Other than big hairy feet and usually curly brown hair, I'm actually struggling to remember much physical description.

So, what's the problem here? Hassan Minaj as Sam? ((Ok, I've been watching a lot of Netflix lately. ))

No, dammit! JACKIE freaking CHAN as Frodo!

I can understand expecting them to be culturally English. i think given that it is a fantasy world, you could still have black or asian hobbits and it they could still be discernibly English. To me it is more about culture than ethnicity or race. Not saying every production would have to have this. I just don't see the problem with it personally.

I believe Eastenders had some POC in the cast, soooo...

I mean, a few swarthy hobbits- even in lead roles- won’t turn LotR into Straight Outta Compton.

Don't you think that is a bit much? I said my critique was fairly moderate. I don't think Martin Luther King Jr. had this kind of conversation about evil orcs or colonialist orc tropes in mind when he wrote that letter.

Probably not- MLK wasn’t a gamer geek. I’m guessing he’d have liked Paladins, though.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I have to say, the discussion of telling a story like LotR or Dune with a cast of other than the presumptive ethnicities brings to mind the Indian movie version of Isaac Asimov’s “Nightfall”*:

[video=youtube;ly25fD8f2JY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly25fD8f2JY[/video]

The multiracial casting in Romeo Must Die
[video=youtube;w500paj_MPU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w500paj_MPU[/video]

AND what may be one of the best versions of “King Lear” captured on film, Ran:
[video=youtube;AbbfDntoRRk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbbfDntoRRk[/video]

(Honorable mention to Wrath of Khan, in which William Shatner is cast as the great white whale.)









* as well as Hollywood’s history of whitewashing, of course.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[dragoner]

We are arguing about whether evil orcs are a problem or not, and whether they are tainted by colonialism. I think that is much more hazy than some of the other standards out there.

It's not hazy, if one replaced the Orc trope with any real world ethnic or religious group as a quick 2 second litmus test, it would be seen as horrible racism in an unqualified manner. It is what it is, Orcs sort of get the pass by tradition and fantasy tropes, I'm not arguing that they should necessarily be removed, except to be sensitive to the fact of what their representation is, is unfortunately racist. That an Orc's traits and capacity for evil is inherent to their race? I really don't see any assumption of how that could be construed in any other way than racism.

My intentions are good.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." As the old saying goes. I think you are mistaken, and I think it's a bad hill to make a stand on. It's better to accept things as they are, and move on.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

....take. That. Back.

If I’m honest, though, he probably would have preferred to play a Cleric, what with his commitment to nonviolence.

Malcolm X, though? Paladins, all day, every day. Perhaps along the lines of...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Honestly, no, I don't consider it a bit much. I think calls for moderation should always consider what they're actually calling for. MLK's admonition is to remember the inherent deleterious values conveyed by such a call for "moderation." This is no different than the other posts here that ask you to consider your motivations (perhaps those that escape your own conscious awareness).

A bible verse he probably had in mind when penning that one’s from Revelations: “I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.”

Moderation has a rightful place in civilization and discourse, but it can be problematic if the issue is in the practitioner’s blind spots.