D&D 5E Group Iniative Order

[jasper]

Hmmmm. What *is* the rule for simultaneous initiative? Having them all move then all attack creates a massive tactical advantage over having them each move then attack.

I can not find one. I also see nothing on not have the same type of monsters going on same initiative count.

 

[jasper]

People this what we know. And beep the ready action. It does not come into play. DDEX02-01 page 7-10. If the dm ran as written. Page 8 Poor success with the seamstress gives 5 guards on page 10. Once guards are defeated, the second wave comes. Second wave 8 blood hawks which have pack tactics, and a hippogriff. The blood hawks will do 2 on 1 by script. Initiative order PC, PC, PC, Hippogriff, PC, Blood Hawks, and OP.
Wait a freaky minute. THE BEEPING MAY HAVE DM SCREWED UP BADLY. From Telvin first post, “……TPK when the two conjured hippogriffs were added into the mix.” BUZZ. The second hippogriff would only come into play on a strong or very strong group (page 10 adjust the encounter box). At five players you cannot ever have a very strong group. See Party Composition below. Four first level since 4 are new to the game. To get a strong group the fifth player had to be running a fourth level. 4 +4 = 8. 8/5 = 1.6 round up gets you 2.
Party Composition Party Strength 3-4 characters, APL less than Very weak
3-4 characters, APL equivalent Weak, 3-4 characters, APL greater than Average
5 characters, APL less than Weak, 5 characters, APL equivalent Average
5 characters, APL greater than Strong, 6-7 characters, APL less than Average
6-7 characters, APL equivalent Strong, 6-7 characters, APL greater than Very strong

Both monster fly at 60 so no need of the ready action. Damage per round is 4 for each hawk, and 18 for the hippogriff if both attacks hits. Tower with is not giving but height is 20 feet. I think I have used 20 feet as the width.

You can run this nice. 2 dive bombers attack one pc and fly away provoking attack of opportunity. Telling new people they can swing on the retreating bird. Or mean. 2 dive bombers, move, attack, move and make the players decide if they going to split their AOOs or not. But the script reads like the hawks and griff are there to cover Proskler’s retreat. So I would only do two rounds of combat by then the villain is out most thrown weapons. Also Telvin did not mention death saves. If I would had zeroed any one out, I would have shift targets. If I zeroed out all the pcs, the guards down below escape and stabilize the group. And laugh at the pcs.

Telvin chalk this up to a new dm learning.

 

[Ratskinner]

Seems it would require a group of monsters with incredible tactical discipline acting as optimally as an SAS team.

The D&D IGOUGO combat system creates many such oddities. While I still play D&D, this is one of the things I really like about systems like the Apocalypse Engine and Forged in the Dark, and even Two Hour Wargames. The chunkiness of D&D-style initiative bugs me increasingly over time.

 

[Telvin]

People this what we know. And beep the ready action. It does not come into play. DDEX02-01 page 7-10. If the dm ran as written. Page 8 Poor success with the seamstress gives 5 guards on page 10. Once guards are defeated, the second wave comes. Second wave 8 blood hawks which have pack tactics, and a hippogriff. The blood hawks will do 2 on 1 by script. Initiative order PC, PC, PC, Hippogriff, PC, Blood Hawks, and OP.
Wait a freaky minute. THE BEEPING MAY HAVE DM SCREWED UP BADLY. From Telvin first post, “……TPK when the two conjured hippogriffs were added into the mix.” BUZZ. The second hippogriff would only come into play on a strong or very strong group (page 10 adjust the encounter box). At five players you cannot ever have a very strong group. See Party Composition below. Four first level since 4 are new to the game. To get a strong group the fifth player had to be running a fourth level. 4 +4 = 8. 8/5 = 1.6 round up gets you 2.
Party Composition Party Strength 3-4 characters, APL less than Very weak
3-4 characters, APL equivalent Weak, 3-4 characters, APL greater than Average
5 characters, APL less than Weak, 5 characters, APL equivalent Average
5 characters, APL greater than Strong, 6-7 characters, APL less than Average
6-7 characters, APL equivalent Strong, 6-7 characters, APL greater than Very strong

Both monster fly at 60 so no need of the ready action. Damage per round is 4 for each hawk, and 18 for the hippogriff if both attacks hits. Tower with is not giving but height is 20 feet. I think I have used 20 feet as the width.

You can run this nice. 2 dive bombers attack one pc and fly away provoking attack of opportunity. Telling new people they can swing on the retreating bird. Or mean. 2 dive bombers, move, attack, move and make the players decide if they going to split their AOOs or not. But the script reads like the hawks and griff are there to cover Proskler’s retreat. So I would only do two rounds of combat by then the villain is out most thrown weapons. Also Telvin did not mention death saves. If I would had zeroed any one out, I would have shift targets. If I zeroed out all the pcs, the guards down below escape and stabilize the group. And laugh at the pcs.

Telvin chalk this up to a new dm learning.

We had 4 guards in the first wave. The second wave was 8 blood hawks and 2 hippogriffs. You know, had there only been one hippogriff (as Jasper suggests there should have been) I think we would have won. I was the last man...err...halfling (rogue) standing. I killed the last bloodhawk and still had almost full hit points. If there had been only one hippogriff, it would have been dead, as there was only the one left at the end.

There were a lot of death saves being made. I do not recall anyone failing three before the end and the DM calling the scenario done. He did that right after my character dropped to the last hippogriff.

Jasper, I think you are right, a new DM learning. They only put this group together because all the other tables were full and there were us 5 people that showed up as first timers. He was like the stand by GM in case the needed one.

I appreciate all the people posting and helping out. I do feel a lot better about the session now. Also, I may be new to 5e, but I have been playing D&D since 1979. Left for Pathfinder because of 4e. Coming back to D&D because I miss it. I particularly miss the feeling of 1e. I was told 5e might be the answer.

 

[MNblockhead]

I don't have an issue with pack animals acting as a unit, but I generally give each participant in a battle its own initiative. This is simple because I use software--HeroLab specifically. This mixes things up more. And better captures the chaos of battle. When running combats with just pencil and paper I have often grouped like monsters together to speed up combat with large numbers of participants, but that always feels unsatisfactory.

It can also be unfair. I play with very experienced players and it can be hard to challenge them. I like to challenge them with tactics instead of just bumping up hit points or attack modifiers. One tactic I use is that if one monster knocks a player down to zero, the next in line will attack him again. It makes sense with clever, tactical, and cruel antagonists like hobgoblins and they are much more scary when played like this. The problem, however, is that if they all have the same initiative, you can frequently have a scenario where a character is taken to zero and quickly loses all his death saves as the other hobgoblins finish him off. Giving each their own initiative gives other players more possibilities to stabilize, heal, or defend the downed player and makes for a more a more interesting battle.

Will less experienced or less tactical players, however, I would likely dial down the tactics quite a bit.