The urban fantasy market seems awfully stagnant

[Zhaleskra]

WoD has immersion breaking rules. In order to shoot the guy in the car, my bullet has to succeed in getting through the window first? While I understand what they're aiming for it just seems like too many rolls.

d20 Modern was fun, but the base classes were the best case for a traditionally class-based system to say "why have classes at all?".

I could probably do a decent Lucifer (DC/Netflix) using Steve Jackson's In Nomine with some adjustment, i.e., Lucifer being an Angel, angels cannot become demons, demons can't become angels.

 

[dbm]

Going to the heart of the OP, this is the downside of a game that heavily integrated system and world. Pick the generic system you like the best and go from there.

If you like more crunchy systems then HERO or GURPS would be good to consider. Both have urban fantasy genre sets available (Monster Hunters for GURPS, IIRC Dark Hero for HERO).

If you like more narrative systems then Fate or Cortex Prime (when it comes out) would be good options.

 

[sallygreen]

I agree with you!

 

[sallygreen]

I totally agree with you

 

[VelvetViolet]

Have you looked at all at Mage for Chronicles of Darkness 2nd edition? Beyond sharing the name and the broad contours of the magic system, they're extremely different games. No consensual reality, and definitely no bases on Saturn.

Saturn bases aren’t bad. Where I get confused is why there’s a need to go so far beyond urban fantasy. Scifi and cyberpunk are present from the start.

 

[TwoSix]

Saturn bases aren’t bad. Where I get confused is why there’s a need to go so far beyond urban fantasy. Scifi and cyberpunk are present from the start.

In Mage: The Ascension they are, but not in Mage: The Awakening.

 

[Kaodi]

What work does "urban" actually do in "urban fantasy" ? A city is mostly a place where rural fantasy traditions congregate and mix. The system should only ever be described as modern or contemporary fantasy. The "urban" is merely a setting.

 

[VelvetViolet]

In Mage: The Ascension they are, but not in Mage: The Awakening.

Yes, but my overall argument was aimed at every iteration of World of Darkness. Mage: The Awakening has an entirely different set of baggage. I believe the Mage Chroniclers' Guide attempted to provide alternative options, but providing options isn't really the intent of the games as a whole. They're married to very specific settings with specific themes and don't invest much in alternative settings. A number of their creative choices I don't agree with.

For example, I've never liked how either has dealt with ghosts and similar. The penumbra/twilight is a headache (I much prefer The Everlasting's simplified "reverie" concept) and the CoD/GMC 2e flowcharts are another headache. There are tons of things I could criticize, but one point I think of pertinence would be that spirits are treated as subject to our conceptions of space-time despite being defined by a lack of corporeality. There are rare situations where this isn't the case (the Ghost Stories book had the ghost of a town), but for the most part they work according to the same logic as D&D's incorporeal undead. Which is great if your focus is combat, but not if it's on mystery, horror or emulating genre fiction.

What work does "urban" actually do in "urban fantasy" ? A city is mostly a place where rural fantasy traditions congregate and mix. The system should only ever be described as modern or contemporary fantasy. The "urban" is merely a setting.

Point taken. I suppose it would be more appropriate to call it modern fantasy or contemporary fantasy.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes, but my overall argument was aimed at every iteration of World of Darkness. Mage: The Awakening has an entirely different set of baggage. I believe the Mage Chroniclers' Guide attempted to provide alternative options, but providing options isn't really the intent of the games as a whole. They're married to very specific settings with specific themes and don't invest much in alternative settings. A number of their creative choices I don't agree with.

No problem. A lot of people just see the name "Mage" and the Sphere system and don't realize how different the two games really are. I agree with your point that is not a toolbox game, nor is it intended to be.

 

[Aldarc]

Does Blades in the Dark not qualify as Urban Fantasy?

Grimdark, cutthroat urban setting (Duskvol) - check

Paranormal (overruneth and all kinds) - check

Magic - check

Factions/tribes embroiled in endless war to ascend hierarchy - check

It is definitely Urban Fantasy, but the BitD setting is incredibly restrictive both in geographic scope (Duskvol) and its breadth of urban fantasy tropes. I don't think that one could readily use BitD for a generic urban fantasy game. It curtails itself to a fairly particular play experience. This is one of its strengths, but it can also work against its favor.

d20 Modern was fun, but the base classes were the best case for a traditionally class-based system to say "why have classes at all?".

This is how Modern AGE, possibly the closest successor to d20 Modern (albeit 3d6 instead of d20), approached it. Instead of adopting the three class system of the AGE system (warrior, mage, rogue), it instead opted to go classless.