D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

Seems like out would be fairly simple for someone to catch someone to stop them falling. A simple use your reaction and make an athletics ore acrobatics check to catch them. I'd even allow movement to represent the dive too grab them before they fall. Probably only DC 10 or 15.

And there 10 points to 15 points less than a previous poster and more evidence of inconsistency. Its actually a element of the complaint, one which is either denied or touted as a feature. See one cannot at all predict and the game provides no basis for a shared expectation. (you are even allowing the fall to be potentially interrupted).

 

[Garthanos]

I think the idea is to catch them and then cushion their fall so that they do not take damage. 5e has no mechanics to express this at all. 4e did since acrobatics could be used to reduce fall damage.

This is actually why it could be reasonably improvised in some form even without the skill power I elaborated above (it might require you be nearer and use the normal reduce damage roll - where as a skill power I made it more absolute no falling damage and the movement rather impressive.

Here's a 5e rules question that I can't find the answer to. Does forced movement into a dangerous area grant a new saving throw? And, if so, what is the DC? Or is that a 4e ism that's stuck in my brain?

Its definitely in 4e

 

[cbwjm]

And there 10 points to 15 points less than a previous poster and more evidence of inconsistency. Its actually a element of the complaint, one which is either denied or touted as a feature. See one cannot at all predict and the game provides no basis for a shared expectation. (you are even allowing the fall to be potentially interrupted).

And this is fine, you only need to worry about your own table who may want a more heroic style game and have lower DCs, another might want something grittier with higher DCs. If you want a more heroic game ask if you can play a more heroic game where you can leverage your skills to do things like catch your falling ally before they fall to their doom. I honestly think that not having everything that can possibly be done written out is a feature of the system, not a bug, so much easier to come up with something then and there rather than having to stop the game and look up the rule that rarely comes into play.

 

[Garthanos]

Parkour Definitely seems a Trained Only function (possibly specific training in 4e a martial practice): Heroes are versatile trope could justify its use via generic Acrobatics training, and the premise that acrobatics is adventurers acrobatics not entertainers acrobatics might also justify it well.

If we are doing realistic Parkour perhaps you should spend a bit of time casing the scene basically analysis before making the run. = then you have movement unimpaired by obstacles dex mod times/squares per turn in the area analysed.?

There is a bit of genre considerations from me

 

[Garthanos]

I honestly think that not having everything that can possibly be done written out is a feature of the system, not a bug, so much easier to come up with something then and there rather than having to stop the game and look up the rule that rarely comes into play.

The rule for everything that only rarely comes up that is a 3e feature right? It really isn't that much in 4e, there were big complaints about 4e being too simplified and lacking general rules (sure skill uses had things which might be seen as sort of general rules they were also pretty short and sweet)
General rules were like skill challenges and page 42.

Skill functions (like a trained character using acrobatics to reduce your falling damage) were elaborated and located in 1 place. Your powers including skill powers where in your players hands and took next to no adjudication. These do help establish for players at least approximately what is possible (not everything which is possible) in a way that is consistent with other elements of the game like what can be accomplished with spells.

Note generally you need player facing elements not just hidden dm ones to create mutual expectations unless you have really elaborate communication going on. The old session zero gets huge.

Really easy to DM.

(thinking one needs to know every power to improvise for 4e is like claiming a 5e dm needs to know every subclass ability to do so in combat)

 

[Garthanos]

And this is fine, you only need to worry about your own table who may want a more heroic style game and have lower DCs, another might want something grittier with higher DCs. If you want a more heroic game ask if you can play a more heroic game where you can leverage your skills to do things like catch your falling ally before they fall to their doom.

We do not even have broad brush strokes guidelines dude you could ask something specific like that and still get non-adventure oriented table side discussions and break ups every time you turn around.

Here are some difficulties for actions - examples of "genre X" here are some that are genre "maintain utility with spell caster parity", here are some demonstrating "gritty feel"

. I honestly think that not having everything that can possibly be done written out is a feature of the system, not a bug,

You think we want everything... we want something and having nothing is a bug (this is called hyperbolic tit for tat)

 

[Garthanos]

Why arent combat abilities affected by Genre etc my battlemaster would be hamstringing or perhaps blinding an enemy permanently in gritty play none of this trip em up for a moment their legs are not working so good now, nor is it (4e) blood in your eyes heroic naughty word or get over it a round later bunk.

-- The answer is because genre is not really left open in the game.

... oh right after removing all the casters you NOW remove the other classes... except the crit fisher fighter. Yay for genre control.

 

[cbwjm]

We do not even have broad brush strokes guidelines dude you could ask something specific like that and still get non-adventure oriented table side discussions and break ups every time you turn around.

Here are some difficulties for actions - examples of "genre X" here are some that are genre "maintain utility with spell caster parity", here are some demonstrating "gritty feel"



You think we want everything... we want something and having nothing is a bug (this is called hyperbolic tit for tat)

How much do you really need though? You say we have nothing and yet some of seem to be able to take what we have and work from there. You don't need specific skill powers, you may not even need a skill, just an idea and an ability check. Seems to work fine at my table at least.

 

[Imaro]

And there 10 points to 15 points less than a previous poster and more evidence of inconsistency. Its actually a element of the complaint, one which is either denied or touted as a feature. See one cannot at all predict and the game provides no basis for a shared expectation. (you are even allowing the fall to be potentially interrupted).

To be fair this is a different action... grabbing someone before they fall... than the one originally proposed... Using acrobatics to leap after the person and ensure neither of you take any damage when hitting the ground.

 

[Imaro]

Why arent combat abilities affected by Genre etc my battlemaster would be hamstringing or perhaps blinding an enemy permanently in gritty play none of this trip em up for a moment their legs are not working so good now, nor is it (4e) blood in your eyes heroic naughty word or get over it a round later bunk.

-- The answer is because genre is not really left open in the game.

... oh right after removing all the casters you NOW remove the other classes... except the crit fisher fighter. Yay for genre control.

You do realize the DMG has optional rules for lingering injuries, longer rest times, hero points, boons, etc...right? There are actual options to tweak combat to suit different genres, tropes, etc. throughout the book.