D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

casting time 1 hour and 1000 gp cost ok really reall ought to be a ritual

 

[Parmandur]

casting time 1 hour and 1000 gp cost ok really reall ought to be a ritual

Arguable, and I am sure they did argue that out when putting the spell list together. It costs all that, and a Spell slot. Not for in the field work.

 

[Garthanos]

Resurrection is not a Ritual spell in 5E. Very few are, they kept the system from 4E[/URL]

I think the system had intrinsic component costs and never had slot cost so I wouldnt at all say they kept rituals not really

 

[Parmandur]

I think the system had intrinsic component costs and never had slot cost so I wouldnt at all say they kept

It is an evolution from the 4E implementation ( as is the Skill system), so "kept" is the right word, even if it is changed.

The rituals are pretty well balanced around niche protection, now that I look at them more carefully: the Nature Cleric or Druid is going to be the one with the "speaking with animals" shtick anyways, as is the Bard or Wizard with identifying loot...

 

[Garthanos]

It is an evolution from the 4E implementation ( as is the Skill system), so "kept" is the right word, even if it is changed.

4e had hundreds of rituals .... and honestly this seems to be RINO when you abandon the resource foundation they do not even all have physical components and you put it usually behind a paywall of known spells or even allowing it in slots ( some rituals being fast castable on a scroll feels distinct)

 

[Garthanos]

The rituals are pretty well balanced around niche protection, now that I look at them more carefully: the Nature Cleric or Druid is going to be the one with the "speaking with animals" shtick anyways, as is the Bard or Wizard with identifying loot...

Rituals were connected up with skill use ie the Druid with his nature skill and Nature Cleric might end up in the same set of rituals. AS would the ranger who chose to do rituals. But it was flexible just as which skills you knew generally is.

 

[Garthanos]

Enchantment magic doesn't just annoy people, it enrages them supernaturally. Not a good Plan A.

You didnt enrage them you convinced them that your efforts were going to endanger them so they fight/work against you just as wholeheartedly anyway even though your end goals are something of which they might approve
The skill use probably takes longer too.

 

[Parmandur]

You didnt enrage them you convinced them that your efforts were going to endanger them so they fight/work against you just as wholeheartedly anyway even though your end goals are something of which they might approve
The skill use probably takes longer too.

Most enchantment spells in 5E have an effect after they end that can be major trouble for the enchanter.

 

[Garthanos]

Most enchantment spells in 5E have an effect after they end that can be major trouble for the enchanter.

Right its a bit like you used the skill and got the benefit then weirdly afterwards you got the follow up of the failure its fairly clever. You never get just the success OR just the failure.

 

[Hussar]

We have rules for skill use as well out of the box.

I did have to thank you @Imaro for introducing me to the new phrase "gonzo realism". Now THAT'S some seriously interesting semantic twisting. But, no, you cannot go outside the box because the DM defines the box, and your answer to my "outside the box" was a flat "no". You can justify it all you like, "keeping genre" for example, but, again, that's 100% YOUR interpretation of the genre. The player has zero say in the matter. But my 1st level wizard can do exactly what I wanted him to do - jump up the wall - any time he wants. True, he can't do it many times. But, again, how often is "many times I want to speed up a wall" actually going to come up? The whole "all day long" red herring falls apart when you realize that the majority of skill checks are one and done and you don't really need to do it again.

Open a lock quietly, without alerting an army of Sahuagin to the player's presence and location.

Silence plus knock. Done. Strategically place the silence spell to block the sound. And, oh look, Silence is a ritual.

Convince somebody to help or not hinder you without causing violent consequences later on.

Pass Without A Trace. Invisiblity. 10000 other options.

Moving freely without resource usage.

Indeed, WotC went to some trouble to make all Skill-avoiding Spells both cost resources and have major complications inherent in their usage.

Wow, that's REALLY stretching/.