D&D 5E Consequences of Failure

[Coroc]

Oh, I agree with this statement very much. However, given the repeated statements like this:

I don't see how you could make that determination as it's obvious that whatever you're talking about isn't what we're talking about.

@Coroc, I assure you no dice are ever fudged in my game. They're brutal little random pain generators.

That seems to be a misunderstanding. Sorry for that. I am still talking about the original scenario. Just predeterminating something sometimes is one way to play the game, I do it like that if the context is right.
It is well established @Elfcrusher method I am perfectly aware of, but I use it only if the context is right.
The example with the party stealthed with or without automatic success is not such a context.

But my players (who all are experienced roleplayers) mostly would not want it that way, it would be the same for them like fudging dice. They like to have a chance to roll on something with an unclear outcome e.g. "did the big bad one really escape with a teleport or did he get killed by an attack of opportunity" .

At no time I intended to assume or point out that anybody contributing to this thread would fudge the dice. But I did use that method, it is even recommended by some official campaign guide for 2e to do it that way if the context is right. I do not do it that way anymore no matter what, and I use open rolling instead.

So sorry again if my intention did not come over clear enough. And of course everybody is free to play this game like he prefers, and there is no way to do it "right" because in that game other than e.g. chess this is subjective and part of one's own view since the rules are nothing but a framework and that is a one of the rules of the game

 

[iserith]

No, not at all. I think perhaps you are reading a condescending, eye-rolling sneer into "you are certainly free to...".

But "You don't really know if you haven't tried it" does not even remotely equal "my way is the only way that works."

"You should try broccoli sometime. It's a good source of fiber and protein. It's got iron, potassium, calcium, all sorts of other vitamins, especially C and K. It's very tasty when prepared well."

"So you're saying there are no other vegetables."

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Sure. I've said that many, many times.

I don't expect you to re-read 766 posts, but throughout this thread you and others have repeatedly said, in effect, "Here is a situation where your approach doesn't work." And I and others have tried to demonstrate how that's not true.



No, not at all. I think perhaps you are reading a condescending, eye-rolling sneer into "you are certainly free to...".

But "You don't really know if you haven't tried it" does not even remotely equal "my way is the only way that works."

From what I’ve read here and in prior threads, many of us who have arrived at a goal-and-approach playstyle used to play differently. And many of us had become dissatisfied enough to try something different and make the changes that brought us to the playstyle we enjoy today. And many of us are constantly trying to learn and hone our abilities within a preferred playstyle to provide the best experience possible at our table each session.

Why this is threatening to some, I really don’t fully understand. I’m chalking it up to misinterpretation.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Why this is threatening to some, I really don’t fully understand. I’m chalking it up to misinterpretation.

Given how consistently...to an astonishing degree...that it gets mischaracterized/smeared, I think that's a fair assumption.

 

[Coroc]

"You should try broccoli sometime. It's a good source of fiber and protein. It's got iron, potassium, calcium, all sorts of other vitamins, especially C and K. It's very tasty when prepared well."

"So you're saying there are no other vegetables."

Of all vegetables I do not eat, I hate broccoli the most Truth!

 

[iserith]

Of all vegetables I do not eat, I hate broccoli the most Truth!

It's the One True Vegetable though. All other vegetables are wrong and bad. The rules say we're supposed to have 3 servings of vegetables per day. So I guess it's just rampant malnutrition at your table.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It's the One True Vegetable though. All other vegetables are wrong and bad. The rules say we're supposed to have 3 servings of vegetables per day. So I guess it's just rampant malnutrition at your table.

To be fair, 4th edition of FDA nutritional guidelines recommended eating those wrong vegetables. He may just be using outdated rules.

 

[Coroc]

It's the One True Vegetable though. All other vegetables are wrong and bad. The rules say we're supposed to have 3 servings of vegetables per day. So I guess it's just rampant malnutrition at your table.

I get hungry for a medium rare steak now, nah joke aside, it was worse when I was young.
These days I do eat beans, even green ones, corn, salads especially chicoree, I love carrots, I eat tomato but only as bruschietto or pasta I cannot eat them whole. But there is still vegetables I despise and that is e.g. cauliflower and broccoli.

But it is meat which made the humans intelligent, and we are no rabbits. I do not support the environmental extremist propaganda which does want to turn us into 11-20 billion humans living vegan but without a vehicle.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Given how consistently...to an astonishing degree...that it gets mischaracterized/smeared, I think that's a fair assumption.

Again, there is a mental jump into a different paradigm that's not altogether easy. I recall my own difficulty in navigating it. What I see in these threads is trying to understand goal and approach as if it's applied to call-for-skill-check play. It's why examples often fail, it's evident in the misunderstandings, so on and so on.

 

[5ekyu]

From what I’ve read here and in prior threads, many of us who have arrived at a goal-and-approach playstyle used to play differently. And many of us had become dissatisfied enough to try something different and make the changes that brought us to the playstyle we enjoy today. And many of us are constantly trying to learn and hone our abilities within a preferred playstyle to provide the best experience possible at our table each session.

Why this is threatening to some, I really don’t fully understand. I’m chalking it up to misinterpretation.

See, to me, the key point would be that "many of us" as well (where " us" means folks with a significant amount of time as the GM and especially those who have GMed more than just D&D) can say that exact same thing - minus having arrived at the same degree of feeling for your now preferred playstyle (or for some, maybe it's more accurate to say "preferred playstyle only whrn running 5e DnD" as I believe some suggest they change playstyle to get each system's intended experience.)

I imagine most experienced GM with varied backgrounds have seen good and bad things from a variety of systems and playstyles and drawn bits from then as they play, with different groups and the like.

I will, speaking for myself, say simply the biggest influence on playstyle for me is the particular set of players at the table and the genre of the setting. The game flow with relatively new RPGers in a VtM game of three adults tends to run much closer to diceless resolutions. But in a group of experienced players (mixed) from multiple systems in a fantasy team rpg with a significant chargen complexity and resolution systems, we tend closer to what 5e would call the middle path. Meanwhile, in a supers game at silver or gold age using a complex point buy (or even grittier settings) from ground up, we veer a lot more towards a far more dice driven playstyle - but then there is a lot more action too.

So, where I personally arrived a long while ago is, there is good and bad to learn from the variety of approaches and no one approach is "the preferred way" or "my preferred way" but rather I get best results drawing from a wide variety of approaches to reach a style set for each campaign that is tailored to the group, the setting and the needs of the campaign and scenes and even individual players.

I supposed that might could maybe also be seen as "threatening" to some who believe they have found the single preferred style or who invest z significant amount of time in promoting it. It certainly seems to strike a nerve now and again on most any gaming board. It seems whether you are talking HERO system boards, VtM forum, Amber discussion groups, Cyberpunk 2020 boards, Traveller groups* and even here - there are always folks who have found "Macguffin, the latest preferred way" (tm).

*Ok, so, maybe not as much in Travellers but i think thats because (or maybe just seems to be by dint of old memories) that there are like what seems to be dozens of different iterations of Traveller by now and if you dont like one just wait a month for a new one.