What is the essence of D&D

[Tony Vargas]

lowkey13
Exterminate all rational thought
...ugh.

Still too much rational thought?

 

[Zardnaar]

The hypothetical execution of the hypothetical class(es) can be assumed flawless, hypothetically.

Eh probably not. Assuming you wanted to add such hypothetical classes to 5E you may have to design a new chasis than add uber maneuvers onto say the fighter. If you want a 5th level ability comparable to fireball, an uber spring attack or volley ability you're getting 1 attack a round.

 

[Tony Vargas]

....

Eh probably not.

Eh, probably not really D&D?

 

[Hussar]

/snip
That's more a class design issue. Or look at a lot of AD&D spells they're a lot weaker than 5E ones.

Class stuff is also going to relate to the edition it's designed. A high damage fighter in 5E is useful with high hitpoint critters.

Huh? How do you figure that AD&D spells are weaker than 5e ones?

Sleep was an instant death spell for multiple targets under 4HD. No save, and HP didn't matter. 5e is nowhere near that powerful. Fireball had no upper limit - it was d6/wizard level. Most AD&D spells were far, far more powerful than their 5e versions.

But, in any case, nothing you've said has actually disagreed with the point that D&D=Primacy of Magic.

 

[Lanefan]

Spell casters in 1e calculating the expansions of a fireball... yay for geometry at the game table now that was work.

That's assuming they did the calculating and didn't just let 'er fly hoping for the best...

 

[Zardnaar]

Huh? How do you figure that AD&D spells are weaker than 5e ones?

Sleep was an instant death spell for multiple targets under 4HD. No save, and HP didn't matter. 5e is nowhere near that powerful. Fireball had no upper limit - it was d6/wizard level. Most AD&D spells were far, far more powerful than their 5e versions.

But, in any case, nothing you've said has actually disagreed with the point that D&D=Primacy of Magic.

Buff spells like bless, a lot of damage dealing spells, way saves scale. 2E has a few spells like stoneskin are better along with spell stacking.

 

[Hussar]

Again, still not the point - magic is still primary.

 

[Lanefan]

I remember the hour and a half of a DM doing geometry not really fondly

Lightning bolts need geometry, which is easy. Fireballs just need the ability to figure out what 33 10x10x10 cubes* comes to, sometimes in an irregular space. Neither has ever taken me longer than 5 minutes, and even that long was due to there being a PC or two right on the edge and so I had to work it out almost to the inch.

* - a fireball's volume is roughly equal to 33000 cu ft, or 33 10' cubes. Trivially easy to count out in typical dungeon hallways, trickier (but still not hard) in odd-shaped rooms, and sometimes a bit of a pain in irregaular-shaped caverns.

 

[Lanefan]

I keep checking in this thread hoping it will have morphed back into an interesting discussion, but it looks like it's still just an ongoing flogging of a horse that's been dead for six years.

Not quite. It died six years ago, sure, but that was only the first time; and since then it's made an impressive series of resurrection survival rolls each time it's been put in the grave.

Of course, its Con is now down to about 2.....

 

[Zardnaar]

Again, still not the point - magic is still primary.

So you can either gut magic and see what happens, give martials non magical abilities thatvdi the same thing which is silly orvhave different jobs in the game which is what 5E tried to do.

Have an entire wizard party and see how it works out.