What is the essence of D&D

[Zardnaar]

That wasnt fun exactly you said it couldnt work without X

It doesn't work well, it's one reason 4E combats are a grind.

It's to hard to run for most people even if they like the idea of tactical skirmish battles.

 

[Garthanos]

I can't really copy and paste entire pages in a phone.

I understand no biggie

 

[Zardnaar]

I understand no biggie

The main problems if 4E on top of it being different.
1. You have to be into tactical skirmishing.
2. And you have to be willing to put in the work.

The average gamer won't care about balance unless it's really out if whack or it makes the game to hard to run.

Art and Arcana also said 3.5 failed to attract new players, afaik they didn't even keep all the 3.0 players. Each version of 3.X was better than the previous IMHO but less people played it.

 

[Garthanos]

It doesn't work well, it's one reason 4E combats are a grind.

Anecdotes I was saying not for me... you didnt just magically change that. But you did specify what you meant by doesnt work.
There are other things that can influence if you roleplay enemies who unless they are some zombie hitting bloodied becomes a cause to try and run or having half your allies go down having the same impact and chase scenes are a different form of excitement ..work wonderfully as skill challenges

I would rather play 3 hours of interesting choices (not that I ever have that is insane than 1 of I hit it with my sword ho hum

 

[Garthanos]

The main problems if 4E on top of it being different.
1. You have to be into tactical skirmishing.

making interesting choices in combat

2. And you have to be willing to put in the work.

4e certainly had less than 3e from all I have heard I saw DMs nosed buried in books and looking up crap constantly *although that is a low sample anecdote, 4e made things so much more modular. Sure seemed a breeze to me

 

[S'mon]

It was really good at heroic fantasy. With strong scene framing and good handle on skill challenges it could be used to play out some really epic fantasy. This really plays out well with the thematic material attached to Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies.

Yep! You saw this in eg @pemerton's discussing of his campaign. I saw it with small-e epic stuff like P2 Demon Queen's Enclave, which led to some great scenes.

 

[S'mon]

1e was good at being fantasy vietnam.... not much good at anything else. See what that sounds like?

Not true though. OD&D (and especially Holmes/BX/BE) was good at being Fantasy Vietnam.

 

[Garthanos]

Spell casters in 1e calculating the expansions of a fireball... yay for geometry at the game table now that was work.

 

[Zardnaar]

Spell casters in 1e calculating the expansions of a fireball... yay for geometry at the game table now that was work.

No one's claiming 1E is perfect, I use 2E fireball instead or B/X even.

Early D&D's good like that mix and match.

You won't find to many people defending 1E mechanics. I like 1E doesn't bother me if others don't. I prefer 2Evand B/X though.

 

[Garthanos]

Not true though. OD&D (and especially Holmes/BX/BE) was good at being Fantasy Vietnam.

Hmmm they might be better... you say this was my first D&D book