What is the essence of D&D

[Garthanos]

There were a grand total of 6 powers out of 240 that worked like Come and Get It where you couldn't just chalk up the maneuver to training or other non-magical sources.

They needed more willingness actually push the edges needed to remember monks were part of the martial fold and probably inspiration for the whole damn thing in some sense ie people who dig deep into discipline and do the incredible. (not psionic techno babble )

 

[Garthanos]

Come and Get it is too mundane... Not even as good as what the movie characters do all the time LOL or more clearly not all the time just once in a while because you know the opportunity to make it work just isnt necessarily too frequent

 

[Garthanos]

Come and Get It. It was the poster boy for 4e critics. The power that couldn't be explained.

Couldn't be explained only by those who assert martial types cannot have reliable tricks otherwise its damn near realistic.

I define a trick as something that can only be used once per group of enemies (per conflict) as it generally relies on deception and the principle of fool me once applies. Element two they can have different variations but you probably still likely cannot convince someone to bite (in similar way) immediately after your bait bit back so to speak... so it needs to be dramatically different trick.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Hardly ever saw it interrupted is that not terrible ... I assumed DMs thought it was being a jerk to interrupt a wizard who hardly had anything to do magical and at higher levels there always seemed to be enough defenses that it was an unlikely event itself. But that is just guessing and its been years it may have just been the DMs I personally encountered.

I played 2E through its entire run and still do. I see 2E spells interrupted all the time. And the higher level the spell the higher the penalty to initiative. 2E was not magic supremacy. High level monsters had good saves to pass the saves. And most of them had magic resistance on top of that at high levels. You really needed your fighters to keep the critters off you or you were toast. And there is no short rest. If u r not playing with alot of magic items and healing potions things can get scary. A long rest only gave 1 hp back at camp and up to 3 with good bed rest. The material components and spell requirements could also be a little tougher. Monsters had alot more immunities too.

 

[Garthanos]

A long rest only gave 1 hp back at camp and up to 3 with good bed rest.

For those mysterious cleric free parties.

 

[Garthanos]

If u r not playing with alot of magic items and healing potions things can get scary.

I did manage to see someone who claimed a bag of holding full of the damn things SMH... monty haul was a real thing (did not want to play with that one)

 

[Arnwolf666]

For those mysterious cleric free parties.

Well yes. But they rarely had enough healing spells to heal us up to anything close to max. Cure spells did not scale and normally the cleric wanted to have other spells ready too. There isnt spontaneous casting in 2E. (Not saying you don’t know that, but some of the later edition players may not)

 

[Hussar]

And the higher level the spell the higher the penalty to initiative.

That's not really true. Power Words, for example, had a casting time of 1. And even Fireball or Lightning Bolt are still a casting time of 3, which is 2 better than a longsword. I've always wondered about these groups that constantly have spells interrupted. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's something I never saw.

Considering Large monsters had +6 to their initiative, and anything bigger than that went all the way up to +12, I've always been rather surprised at how often people claim that spells got interrupted.

 

[Zardnaar]

For those mysterious cleric free parties.

We had cleric free parties.

Played it like WW1 sorta. Combat was terrifying, you might have 1-2 battles and lots of rest.

You don't do dungeonhacks.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's not really true. Power Words, for example, had a casting time of 1. And even Fireball or Lightning Bolt are still a casting time of 3, which is 2 better than a longsword. I've always wondered about these groups that constantly have spells interrupted. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's something I never saw.

Considering Large monsters had +6 to their initiative, and anything bigger than that went all the way up to +12, I've always been rather surprised at how often people claim that spells got interrupted.

Wizard spells tended to be casting time 1 per level, cleric spells 3+level.

Fireball being level 3 had a casting time if 3. Vs wizards darts and daggers came out speed factor 2. Magic weapons also reduced the weapon speed so a plus 3 longswords had speed two vs fireball speed of 3.

Power words were an exception so yeah they were good for casting times but they were high risk due to spell turning.

High level 2E fighters were really good, MR was static number and saves were HD based.

Something like a T Rex vs hold minster makes it's save 75% of the time, in 5E it fails 75% of the time although it gets a save each round.
Mind flayers 90%MR.......