What is the essence of D&D

[Lanefan]

Which again, leads into what I said earlier. 4e divided the fan base in spite of commercially doing fine and still being the top of the RPG market, and being the edition during which the surge in DnD popularity in general started, because of presentation more than any other single factor.

You must be in a vastly different market than I am. 4e caused a bit of a spike in popularity on release, but nowhere near what 3e prompted; and D&D was otherwise fading badly until 5e came out - after which it took off.

 

[Lanefan]

If I had a time machine and wanted to waste it on betting on things that don't matter, I'd bet my entire savings account that if you went back and made the lead up to 4e friendlier to people who loved 3.5 (ie, no making fun of it in official announcements and such), and presented powers in a way that looked more like abilities in Star Wars Saga Edition (like 5e has done), decreased the PHB number of powers in favor of including at least 1 of the PHB2 classes, released the rest of the PHB2 classes within the first year (and the gnome, for crying out loud), and tweaked some other presentation problems here and there, the edition war simply would not have happened. Full stop.

Only thing I'd add to that list of retroactive changes is this: dispense with the "everything is core" idea. Put out what's supposed to be core right up front (including the missing races, classes, etc.) and have done with it. Subsequent releases are optional.

 

[Lanefan]

I love the idea of an herb you can buy or forage that lets you breath water or hold your breath for aquatic mammal lengths of time (ie, hours at a time), and I really wish the Saltmarsh book had gone into that advice you mention. Terrible missed opportunity, there.

Truth is, the realm of quasi-magical herbs in general is pretty much empty design space at the moment even though common literature is loaded with examples (athelas for healing in LotR, gillyweed for water-breathing in Harry Potter, etc.).

There was, I think, a rather vague attempt made at quasi-magical herbs in a very old Dragon Mag. article, and from that we houseruled our own system; but I don't know of any 'official' version in anything newer than 2e.

 

[Nagol]

Strong enough list, but one question: where does Detect Secret Doors come from? Is that a spell from UA (most of which we tossed)? Or is it something your MU self-designed (if so, cool!)?

And even at high level I'd still take Sleep over Mending.

It appeared in an enemy spell book and I yoinked it as soon as I saw it! I'm not sure where it came from; maybe a Dragon or homebrew construction? It causes a faint glow to outline concealed entrances/exits for a couple of rounds per level.

(This magic-user has made a few personal spells; mostly electrical in nature including Wall of Sparks (like Wall of Fire mostly; less spread damage but a bit extra damage to victims clad in metal) and Ball Lightning (looks and acts like Dancing Lights, goes Zzzap! when comes into contact with matter, split (level)d4 damage between the balls when first created, duration, range, appearance, control as per dancing lights).)

Mending is great! It helps make sure basic gear are patched up and not a concern for the DM. It also helps break the ice with farmers and other common folk -- offering to repair pots and such shows that the character just regular folk!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Only thing I'd add to that list of retroactive changes is this: dispense with the "everything is core" idea. Put out what's supposed to be core right up front (including the missing races, classes, etc.) and have done with it. Subsequent releases are optional.

Do you think that would have changed how the edition was recieived in terms of the absurd "it's not dnd!!!!!1!!" stuff?

Truth is, the realm of quasi-magical herbs in general is pretty much empty design space at the moment even though common literature is loaded with examples (athelas for healing in LotR, gillyweed for water-breathing in Harry Potter, etc.).

There was, I think, a rather vague attempt made at quasi-magical herbs in a very old Dragon Mag. article, and from that we houseruled our own system; but I don't know of any 'official' version in anything newer than 2e.

Absolutely. I'd love to see some work expanding the game in that direction, tbh.

 

[Garthanos]

They could have decreased the number of powers, items, or even waiting until PHB2 to release epic levels

I definitely would have done that... they need more time to gel on epic anyway.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You must be in a vastly different market than I am. 4e caused a bit of a spike in popularity on release, but nowhere near what 3e prompted; and D&D was otherwise fading badly until 5e came out - after which it took off.

I've actually never paid the least attention to my local market for any reason. I'm working from the internet community, the popularity of people watching other people play dnd (started in 4e with Aquisitions Inc), the tabletop game boom (started during the 4e era), and the signs of rising out of the slump in terms of games being made and sold. All of that started during 4e, and skyrocketed in the wake of 5e's popularity.

 

[Lanefan]

It appeared in an enemy spell book and I yoinked it as soon as I saw it! I'm not sure where it came from; maybe a Dragon or homebrew construction? It causes a faint glow to outline concealed entrances/exits for a couple of rounds per level.

Probably a homebrew by your DM then, as I don't recall ever seeing it anywhere official.

Mending is great! It helps make sure basic gear are patched up and not a concern for the DM. It also helps break the ice with farmers and other common folk -- offering to repair pots and such shows that the character just regular folk!

I long ago weakened Mending just a bit and busted it down to a cantrip (combined it with Stitch), where it remains.

 

[Garthanos]

It's fiction, heroes can do stuff we can't IRL.

Sure till you don't like the fluff....

Not long term, I think Pearl divers in shallow areas could last around 8 minutes with a lifetime of training.

Sure but they aren't Beowulf

 

[Lanefan]

Do you think that would have changed how the edition was recieived in terms of the absurd "it's not dnd!!!!!1!!" stuff?

Not sure, but I think it would have given it a better chance of being accepted at all, or at least taken out for a test drive by more groups.