What is the essence of D&D

[Campbell]

Say wot mate?

I think they are too close in effectiveness. There is definitely a gap, but not large enough for my tastes.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Like the one who simply reached into boiling water and pulled somebody out? Or fought off a dozen round table knights barenaked the two actually have that "not really dependent on their tools aspect" to put it in Fate terms in common.

Probably more obscure.
But, I mean, Beowulf has had several movies, at least one fairly big budget, at least one (not the same one) actually good, and … other projects that used the name but not the story...

 

[Garthanos]

Hell 2E you could build an unarmed fighter.

Sure but this definitely was an example of fighting outside of his forte or we could take it back to yea old heroes are versatile way more versatile than sometimes games present

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeh sort of a side effect of hit points I grant and even the original story sounds possibly like an odd sort of euphemism because the person he pulled out was a woman and unharmed. So not exactly certain what it meant. But vivid. LOL


Well what was intended and why I specified roundtable knights was these would be assumed anything but mooks (in context of the Greatest knight even very prestigious (call them level 9 in almost any version of D&D).

I actually enjoy parallels over much broader gaps I think being able to tear down monsters in Beowulfs case and the bad guys even unarmed and unarmored in Lancelot's was maybe the only obvious one. Cuh Cuhlainn and Sampson and Lancelot now those three all used Berserkergang and had empowering oaths which conflicted with other social oaths... only Lancelot managed to dodge between his... perhaps both his were indirectly both empowering and that made a difference.

The way I did it was if your level 6 fighter was butt naked rather that give them CR appropriate encounters you used level 0 NPCs so the fighter was bad ass without weapons but would still take some damage.

Same thing if you're playing a stealth ninja, most NPCs are level 0,1,2 so a 5th level Thief can probably ninja them.

it point inflation kinda killed that aspect off a bit.

When I first played 2E with modern gamers the fighter player from 3.5/PF rolled up a Myrmidon from the Complete Fighters book. Due to the difference between the editions he was a lot more effective relatively than in 3E and he enjoyed it although I did use some modernism like ascending AC.

Not I rate 2E and B/X high on my list of D&Ds, they're also lower powered than say 3.5 and 1E although in 1E its really on a couple of classes and level 11+ you really notice it.

 

[Garthanos]

The way I did it was if your level 6 fighter was butt naked rather that give them CR appropriate encounters you used level 0 NPCs so the fighter was bad ass without weapons but would still take some damage.

Oh yes presenting the flunkies as mooks is a valid solution and workable I was just indicating the story intent was well to point out how over the top the lead character was and that they didnt need their tools for it which is a theme of Beowulf too ... which level 6 might not qualify but that is something presentation can change. So I wouldn't discredit your method.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I like the idea in some thread (this one?) recently that Fighters can do vaguely defined epic things by spending a resource. (I proposed HD).

That way different DMs can decide what is suitably epic. Tony will let them leap tall buildings in single bounds. Others will let them make really great coffee for the Wizard.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Re: blown-uo Wand of the Magi
Er...where do you get this conclusion from?

Magic items are (and should be!) fragile enough that some of them breaking becomes a very real possibility if you get nailed with a fireball, lightning bolt, or similar and blow your save.

And wands, when they break, have a chance of going >boom!< - an unintentional version of the 'retributive strike' you can get by breaking one intentionally.

The character in question just got immensely unlucky. Them's the breaks, pun intended.

Actually there were pretty harsh rules for magic item s breaking on failed saves and making item saving throws. It’s cool if he did it all the time and was consistent and not just because he got himself a staff of the magi. That was he knew up front they risk before blowing that kind of gold.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh yes presenting the flunkies as mooks is a valid solution and workable

In 4e I would probably need to make them under leveled minions unless the knight was a particular build ...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think they are too close in effectiveness. There is definitely a gap, but not large enough for my tastes.

I'm at a loss for the possible benefit of player options that are just strictly better than other player options that fill the same spot.

That seems like very bad design.

 

[Garthanos]

I'm at a loss for the possible benefit of player options that are just strictly better than other player options that fill the same spot.

That seems like very bad design.

Not sure but I think he is saying if you have a bevvy of choices the choices should have a yield ... ie better results when you do well and worse when you dont??? I am just guessing but not sure.