D&D 5E Paladin just committed murder - what should happen next?

[CleverNickName]

Oath of the Ancients, eh? Ouch.

Hmm, I'd have a hard time squaring the paladin's actions with his Oath, for sure. That one is pretty ironclad in black-and-white. What he did was not an act of mercy or kindness (except to maybe the dragon), and did the polar opposite of "kindling the light in the world and beating back despair." He literally AND figuratively let wickedness swallow love and laughter, and did nothing to stop it from rendering life barren. The part about keeping the light in one's heart would require a great deal of squinting, but I think we can all agree that the last one is the doozy: "be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds." Those uses of the word "all" are the kicker.

Yeah, this would require atonement at my table for sure. But I tend to take a hard line on oaths, pacts, and other things that people in this thread are comfortable hand-waving, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Nagol]

Call me biased for siding with my DM but...a paladin would traditionally have an almost insane Charisma surely he could reason with a draconic being and offer a greater meal then that he would gain from any two humans unless they were immensely obese.

As a DM running a dragon, if a puny human refused my demands to give me that hunk of meat... I'd eat them both. If he tried to talk to me, I'd eat him unless I needed something else. After all, I picked this fight. I'm pretty confident to begin with and I'm a freaking dragon.

As a DM framing this scene, I expect to screw the player by screwing the PC. There is little win possible here. Not only did I pick an opponent that is almost certainly beyond the capabilities of the PC, I initiated the encounter with a demand the PC can't afford to provide that provides very little wiggle room.

As a player, I take whatever the DM says as consequence, retire the PC and bring in a new one with no strings attached to the world for him to screw me over.

 

[Celebrim]

As a DM running a dragon, if a puny human refused my demands to give me that hunk of meat... I'd eat them both. If he tried to talk to me, I'd eat him unless I needed something else. After all, I picked this fight. I'm pretty confident to begin with and I'm a freaking dragon.

If I'm running the Paladin, and this happens, I say, "If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't be negotiating. Since we've already established that you are afraid, all that is left to establish is how afraid you ought to be."

Or/and...

"This is not a puny mortal that stands before you. I'm am a Paladin of the Order of the Ancients, and in this life or the next I will smite you if you come closer, foul beast."

Or/and...

"Hope prevails, or it doesn't. But if it fails, it will not be because I didn't stand in the light."

I mean seriously, it's a Paladin - one liners just roll of the tongue. This guy believes that he's ordained to roll natural 20's in this situation, and that if he dies, maybe it's just to show that he can be raised from the dead. How could anyone possibly argue that of course he should just run away in this situation and that there is nothing wrong with him doing so?

 

[Wiseblood]

It is always amazing to me how different people see alignment.

So to confirm, many people on this thread believe that if someone holds you at gunpoint, takes away someone from you, and you don’t try to get yourself killed by stopping them...that you are a murderer and an evil person.

Really? People really feel that way about this kind of situation?

I am not a paladin. Not a murderer but possibly a coward. People are not money. I would part with my money but with people on the line my self preservation might not kick in as fast as my sense of do something quick!

 

[PsyzhranV2]

If I'm running the Paladin, and this happens, I say, "If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't be negotiating. Since we've already established that you are afraid, all that is left to establish is how afraid you ought to be."

And then the Adult Dragon says "No, I was being merciful. It seems that was a mistake," and then rocks fall - er, the Dragon attacks, and everybody dies ebcause the Dragon is CR 14 and the party's resources are spent.

The people in this thread trying to play the victim blaming game for piss-poor DMing are disgusting. This scenario is like the worst combination of rocks fall everybody dies and the Orc baby massacre. Shame on you. Shame on all of you.

 

[CamHallulis]

As a DM running a dragon, if a puny human refused my demands to give me that hunk of meat... I'd eat them both. If he tried to talk to me, I'd eat him unless I needed something else. After all, I picked this fight. I'm pretty confident to begin with and I'm a freaking dragon.

I agree with the fact that the dragon could win the fight in seconds. Bear in mind that a paladin is supposed to be one to preserve life not sacrifice it. I mean if I were to demand a granola bar from someone and they instead offer to buy me a steak dinner why in my right mind would I insist on two granola bars instead.

 

[CleverNickName]

So to confirm, many people on this thread believe that if someone holds you at gunpoint, takes away someone from you, and you don’t try to get yourself killed by stopping them...that you are a murderer and an evil person.

Nope, not at all.

"People on this thread" are not paladins, and have not gained supernatural powers to fight evil through a sacred oath. We are just ordinary people with ordinary beliefs. Paladins are not ordinary people with ordinary beliefs, and they never should be treated as such.

 

[Wiseblood]

And then the Adult Dragon says "No, I was being merciful. It seems that was a mistake," and then rocks fall - er, the Dragon attacks, and everybody dies ebcause the Dragon is CR 14 and the party's resources are spent.

The people in this thread trying to play the victim blaming game for piss-poor DMing are disgusting. This scenario is like the worst combination of rocks fall everybody dies and the Orc baby massacre. Shame on you. Shame on all of you.

I am not victim blaming. I am blaming an un-indicted co-conspirator.

 

[Celebrim]

As I recall, this was more complicated than that.

It is. And the fact that it is, is precisely why this Steve Rogers is the best written version of the character probably ever.

Where is the line between good sense and giving up?

I have no idea, but I bet Steve would have a snappy one liner that was encouraging and at the same time filled with pithy wisdom.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I am not victim blaming. I am blaming an indicted co-conspirator.

I'm talking about OOC metagame concerns rather than the IC events that transpired. The former trumps the latter. This is no moral dilemma for the Paladin but rather a poorly constructed scenario designed to punish the player by soft-railroading them with the incentive of not losing their character to a foe that clearly outmatched them, with no hint that the Dragon was willing to negotiate further. Surprise TPK Dragons do not a good encounter make. The Paladin is not the one at fault here, nor is the Paladin's player. The burden of blame rests on the DM.