Sensitivity Writers. AKA: avoiding cultural appropriate in writing

[Bedrockgames]

If you turn your attention away from it, a drum solo from a song- even one as complex as found in Frank Zappa’s “The Black Page”- can sound random. But I f you pay attention to it, you can pick it out of a bunch of randomized rhythmic sounds.

We are getting lost in analogies but what he is talking about though is millions of drummers playing different beats at the same time. You can't really compare the difficulty of discerning a pattern in a single complex drum beat, to the difficulty of discerning a pattern from thousands upon thousands of differing critiques.

I really think the complexity issue around this is a lot more major than people realize. It is essentially creating a whole new system of etiquette to be adhered to when creating things or handling anything to do with culture and cultural exchange. And agin, it is something requires in depth knowledge and understanding of the principles and ideas around appropriation (as well as in depth knowledge of the world and the world's cultures). This is the sort of thing priest classes handle in society. It is beyond the scope of most regular people (I know it is for me, I don't think I would be able to create things if I were trying to truly avoid appropriation---because the rules shift, the conversation shifts, and the process keeps getting more complicated).

 

[Zardnaar]

But a lot of those things wouldn’t have happened if the concept of cultural appropriation had currency when they were developed.

It's evolution, each successful culture has usually been influenced by other cultures.
The ones that didn't adapt went bye bye.

This alphabet, we got it from the Romans, they were influenced by the Greeks who were influenced by the Phoenicians.

Like the concept of 0? India-Arabs-Europe.
Cultural appropriation right there. Things were different 50 years ago, in 50 years time it will be different, 50 years after that......

Just don't mock other cultures.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This is the mindset that I think is very harmful coming out of this. It doesn't really seem like it is coming from a desire to spread good, empathy and understanding. It seems very focused on the punitive, and bordering on the inquisitorial.

To quote Col. Potter:

If someone tells you that you hurt them in some way, and you blow off their complaints, you’re probably going to be a target for blowback, and deservedly so.



OTOH, even if you ultimately disagree with the aggrieved, if you approach the discussion of the complaint with an open mind and good faith, you’re not going to get the same backlash.

And in my example, I am talking about a person with no understanding of the context. So whatever the end result they do is, it is without knowledge.

Ignorance is no defense.

And that gets to my point about the increase in complexity and the classism/elitism going on here with this. There are all these little rules, protocols and expectations of understanding of complex topics. But the person in my example is just a simple musician emulating sounds he or she heard.

So he knows nothing. You know what he should do? Ask questions. Educate himself.



Novel concept, I know.

I think this is where cultural appropriation as a concept tips us into much darker territory than if we are simply concerned about whether we are doing things that are visibly offensive.

When in doubt, don’t assume, ASK!

And does a Catholic or a Buddhist have the moral authority to tell a non-Catholic or a non-Buddhist to abide by their taboos when handling their music? I am not sure they do have that authority.

They most certainly do. Would you tell a Native American that they don’t have the moral authority to tell you not to drop a deuce on sacred land?

You don’t have to listen, of course, but that’s on you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Afaik Louis CK didn't do anything illegal. Furthermore, there is room for interpretation about the morality of what he did.

Aaaaaand at this point, you and I are done for the foreseeable future. I find it hard to believe you’re discussing things in good faith.

Louis CK was accused of- and admitted- that he exposed himself to and masturbated in front of at least 5 different women, only one of whom (Sarah Silverman) expressed any notion that it was in any way consensual. And even she stated that he abused his power and celebrity. This isn’t obscure stuff, this was widely reported in industry outlets like Variety, news outlets like The Guardian & CNN, tabloid press like TMZ, and even soft news like People.

Louis C.K. Admits Sexual Misconduct Allegations 'Are True'

"The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them," a portion of Louis C.K.'s statement reads

people.com

That isn’t ethical/moral shades of gray stuff, that behavior is black letter law illegal. In all likelihood, only the statute of limitations has kept him out of jail.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Aaaaaand at this point, you and I are done for the foreseeable future. I find it hard to believe you’re discussing things in good faith.

Louis CK was accused of- and admitted- that he exposed himself to and masturbated in front of at least 5 different women, only one of whom (Sarah Silverman) expressed any notion that it was in any way consensual. And even she stated that he abused his power and celebrity. This isn’t obscure stuff, this was widely reported in industry outlets like Variety, news outlets like The Guardian & CNN, tabloid press like TMZ, and even soft news like People.

Louis C.K. Admits Sexual Misconduct Allegations 'Are True'

"The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them," a portion of Louis C.K.'s statement reads

people.com

That isn’t ethical/moral shades of gray stuff, that behavior is black letter law illegal. In all likelihood, only the statute of limitations has kept him out of jail.

Sacred bloody Night! the idea that there is room for interpretation as to the morality of CK’s actions!?

DA, you’re approaching sainthood for your participation in this thread.

@Sacrosanct , message me if you want some twitter recommendations for people who anyone interested in learning more on this, and people that may well signal boost or give recommendations for sensitivity readers.

 

[billd91]

The problem with the "constant drumbeat of complaints" is that it tends to drown out any difference or nuance.

I think a bigger problem is, being a relatively “new” big thing, people aren’t paying attention to nuance when they use it and I see what I suspect is a lot of misapplication. To use the dreadlock example - dreadlocks have been around for thousands of years, Rastafarianism since about the 1930s. Is a Rastafarian chiding someone else in dreads himself engaging in cultural appropriation by claiming an exclusivity that isn’t backed by history?

And honestly, you see a lot of things like that with internet denunciation culture - uninformed criticism. So no wonder there’s a lot of cynicism. But I also believe too many people use the fact that there is misapplication as an excuse to throw the baby out with the bath water. Claims of cultural appropriation deserve to be investigated, interrogated, and accepted or rejected based on their merit, not dismissed or accepted because they’re currently one of the IN-things for people of a particular ideological bent.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Sacred bloody Night! the idea that there is room for interpretation as to the morality of CK’s actions!?

DA, you’re approaching sainthood for your participation in this thread.

@Sacrosanct , message me if you want some twitter recommendations for people who anyone interested in learning more on this, and people that may well signal boost or give recommendations for sensitivity readers.

Well, the point of this thread was to get info like that lol. So no need to PM, I’m sure others could probably find it useful as well

 

[S'mon]

I think there's a big difference between "this is real/historical" and "this is a fantasy". People can legitimately take offence at a fantasy too, but the bar is a lot higher than for something presented as a genuine/accurate portrayal of a particular culture.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Ignorance is no defense.







So he knows nothing. You know what he should do? Ask questions. Educate himself.

But this again brings me back to my earlier point, where a lack of knowledge, and a lack of education are being treated as the crime. There are times when a person's ignorance would most certainly soften our reactions to different perceived transgressions. You are put this mountain of expectation on the person transgressing, where you expect them to behave with complete and total empathy and understanding (and empathy and understanding are not bad things) but you place no such expectation on the side castigating him. You are giving one side a narrow band of territory to pass through, where you are unforgiving of missteps, and its like you are justifying any reaction to that.

 

[Bedrockgames]

They most certainly do. Would you tell a Native American that they don’t have the moral authority to tell you not to drop a deuce on sacred land?

You don’t have to listen, of course, but that’s on you.

Sacred land is a physical thing. That is like digging up someone's grave or knocking down the door of a church. Obviously if you are inside a church or at a Native American ceremony, they would both have moral authority in those cases. What I am saying is, people can't hold you to their taboos outside of their 'jurisdiction' if you don't share their foundational beliefs. If you are a guest participating in a ceremony, that is one thing. But when you move outside that venue, especially in the realm of imagination and art, why would you be beholden to peoples' taboos? I mean a non-Christian playing with Christian themes doesn't have to be bound by the same taboos as an actual Christian would be. We shouldn't be able to impose our religious taboos on other people who don't believe.