D&D 5E Is the sleep spell d&d 5e too powerful

[the Jester]

Good point for the elf, yet I strongly feel that this is a way too powerful spell for a 1st level. Which offers NO SAVING THROW. Thanks for your insight

One more thing for you to ponder- sleep has been around since before 1e. It has, with the (arguable) exception of 4e's attack roll based version (since attacks replaced saves in 4e), never offered a saving throw. If it was a problem spell, surely someone would have revised it by now in all the different revisions of the game. And yet nobody has.

I appreciate your position. Sleep looks insane on the surface. Yet, it has stood the test of time and managed to make it for 30+ years without a save and without ruining the game.

It's worth considering, if sleep is overpowered, why it has managed to avoid correction for literally the entire lifetime of the game, despite several revisions that adjusted it in other ways.

 

[Salthorae]

Something else I just thought of... though I laid it out pretty well above.

Saying sleep is too powerful because it gives you autocrits on your party at 1st level is like saying a greatsword or a greataxe are too powerful at first level.

The Barbarian who is secretly a serial killer is on watch (or the fighter, whoever). They decide "tonight's the night". Your wizard and the cleric and rogue are all asleep (and unconscious per the condition) even without the sleep spell.

Walk over to the cleric, drop that Greatsword with advantage on the attack. Automatic 4d6+3 (minimum) damage. Average of 17 damage on that hit. Walk over and do the same to the rogue and wizard. Done.

Even more so, say it's not a fighter, say it's a half-orc barbarian who rages and uses a greataxe and then starts his rampage through the camp.

Auto crit on the sleeping Cleric, 3d12+3+2 (rage) = average damage of 24.5 damage to that cleric. Dead.

Move on to the Wizard and then the Rogue who probably didnt' wake up from just the "thunk".

 

[the Jester]

Also, to add to that, to fire bolt has disadvantage to prone targets...

To be fair, if he's within 5' of the target, the wizard gets advantage if they're prone even with ranged attacks. In OP's scenario, I think it's fair to assume that this is probable.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Sleep is potent at low levels and entirely useless at high levels.

Seems balanced to me.

 

[neogod22]

To be fair, if he's within 5' of the target, the wizard gets advantage if they're prone even with ranged attacks. In OP's scenario, I think it's fair to assume that this is probable.

Then it becomes up to the DM if he/she wants to the advantage/disadvantage cancel each other out, or if they want to grant one or the other, by the RAW, they should cancel each other out, and it becomes a straight roll.
Also, the wizard only gets 1 attack per round and usually isn't very strong. He will probably use a melee weapon for the advantage, and the chances of him kill in anyone in one round may be pretty low even with a crit. Chances are, his attack which he still needs to beat their armor class, will wake the person up, and the wizard will have bigger problems.

 

[MarkB]

&D 5E. Ok,hear me out. Proof sleep is too powerful. Form a group of 4 players (fighter, rogue, priest, wizard), all of which level 1. So its fair to say in order, they would have an average of 12 hp, 8 hp, 9 hp and 6 hp. Let's imagine the wizard is a serial killer... he casts sleep with an average roll of 22 hp and he could roll higher (needing only 29 total) to put all three players to sleep (NO SAVING THROW). So for the next 10 rounds he has advantage + critical on all the players.

Yeah, but he also gets exactly the same advantages against the party if they make camp for the night and he volunteers to take first watch. So by your reasoning, long rests are also overpowered.

 

[Sacrosanct]

We have a new player and last Sunday they wanted to cast sleep in a room to take out any unknown guards. Then it was pointed out by the other wizard (me) how most likely the spell would end up affecting us instead, since we probably had lower HP than whatever might be in the room. Sleep is good, but you have to have an idea of what you're casting it against and how it might affect you first.

There is another benefit of sleep that gets overlooked. Everyone says how it loses effectiveness against higher level creatures. That's only true at the start of combat. If you've beaten down your target and want a guarantee way to incapacitate it, sleep is still very effective. There is no save for it. So beat that 100 hp opponent down to 20ish or so HP, and cast at higher slot if you need to. Boom. Tango down. Especially effective at monsters who are resistant to damage or have great saves, since that last 20 or so hp might take a while to whittle down via traditional combat.

 

[Salthorae]

We have a new player and last Sunday they wanted to cast sleep in a room to take out any unknown guards. Then it was pointed out by the other wizard (me) how most likely the spell would end up affecting us instead, since we probably had lower HP than whatever might be in the room. Sleep is good, but you have to have an idea of what you're casting it against and how it might affect you first.

There is another benefit of sleep that gets overlooked. Everyone says how it loses effectiveness against higher level creatures. That's only true at the start of combat. If you've beaten down your target and want a guarantee way to incapacitate it, sleep is still very effective. There is no save for it. So beat that 100 hp opponent down to 20ish or so HP, and cast at higher slot if you need to. Boom. Tango down.

I've taken out a few ogres with it this way in my time. Let the party melee beat on a couple of opponents, then sleep with just them in the area.

I also use it to great effect the round following a fireball or other similarly large AoE spell that damages a bunch of things but might not drop them.

EDIT: an Evoker with sculpt spell can really wreak havoc with a Fireball sculpted around his allies and then a sleep on top of those enemies that just took 14-28 damage to drop many around the allies.

 

[neogod22]

We have a new player and last Sunday they wanted to cast sleep in a room to take out any unknown guards. Then it was pointed out by the other wizard (me) how most likely the spell would end up affecting us instead, since we probably had lower HP than whatever might be in the room. Sleep is good, but you have to have an idea of what you're casting it against and how it might affect you first.

There is another benefit of sleep that gets overlooked. Everyone says how it loses effectiveness against higher level creatures. That's only true at the start of combat. If you've beaten down your target and want a guarantee way to incapacitate it, sleep is still very effective. There is no save for it. So beat that 100 hp opponent down to 20ish or so HP, and cast at higher slot if you need to. Boom. Tango down. Especially effective at monsters who are resistant to damage or have great saves, since that last 20 or so hp might take a while to whittle down via traditional combat.

It can be used this way at higher levels, except the problem is, the players never know when the moster is thst wounded, so it becomes a gamble, but it is a good tactic if used right.

 

[LordEntrails]

The Barbarian who is secretly a serial killer is on watch (or the fighter, whoever). They decide "tonight's the night". Your wizard and the cleric and rogue are all asleep (and unconscious per the condition) even without the sleep spell.
...

This is what I was going to say. Except use the rogue first as the killer.

As for the ogre use of sleep, at high levels it can still be used to end the fight 1 round early, or atleast knock out some mooks to reduce the action economy.