D&D 5E The "everyone at full fighting ability at 1 hp" conundrum

[Garthanos]

Heal is a level 6 and get this raise dead level 5

 

[Tony Vargas]

Heal is a level 6 and get this raise dead level 5

The former is the more immediately-useful spell, much faster casting time, removes conditions that would stick with you through a raise dead, like insanity. Might not make oodles of sense in-character, to say Heal is more powerful than Raise Dead, but as a game mechanic, not out of line.

 

[Garthanos]

The former is the more immediately-useful spell, much faster casting time, removes conditions that would stick with you through a raise dead, like insanity. Might not make oodles of sense in-character, to say Heal is more powerful than Raise Dead, but as a game mechanic, not out of line.

Make heal a ritual too like remove afflictions and lower its level ... and done in character suddenly aligns with game aspect (it can even be cheaper and feel logically so)

 

[Lanefan]

Heal is a level 6 and get this raise dead level 5

Heal had other uses besides just curing lots of h.p. all at once, though - it was the only fix for Feeblemind and some other nasty conditions, for one thing; and combined all the other cures (e.g. cure disease, neutralize poison, cure blindness, etc.) into one.

About the only things it couldn't fix were death (as noted) or lost limbs, the fixing of which required a 7th-level spell - Regenerate.

 

[JeffB]

D&D needs a bloodied/staggered condition.

and probably number deflation to OD&D levels.

Or go Arduin. HP=Con score + racial mod + small set # per level- Fighters 2HP, all others 1HP per level. or Maybe 3/2/1.

 

[Garthanos]

Heal had other uses besides just curing lots of h.p. all at once, though - it was the only fix for Feeblemind and some other nasty conditions

Its dorfy dumb for raise the dead to be less difficult sorry utterly nonsense.
I wasn't even worrying about the full hit point restore. We were talking about the restoring injurious conditions like not having to wait a week in AD&D land. The Nasty but for the most part rarish conditions with disease being the most common perhaps do not impress me as, "out of action and unable to contribute" is not such a fun time. largely I am also fine with disease being short circuited (aside from supernatural or werewolf or vampire kinds where you have to slay a progenitor those I do not want amenable till higher levels) perhaps I feel mostly its not usually much story except protracted boredom or theoretical misery. Whereas bringing back the dead I want to be even higher level in part because .. send the rescue party to the grey realm or into the goddesses chalice and the like. Which to me is paragon class adventure in flavor. (and yes its ok to short circuit those eventually)
I don't think we need instant flavor for removing all those afflictions.. so that it can be done smack in the middle of combat.

And if one has some good story around the disease or supernatural affliction perhaps making a particular one resistant to straight forward removal is ok too. In 5e land let it require a higher level slot or some adventure driven pump up.

 

[3catcircus]

Heal is a level 6 and get this raise dead level 5

Yes, but the raise dead spell had more restrictions. You could only do it on gnome, elf, dwarf, human or half-elf. The body needed to be whole or those parts would still being missing after the body returned to life. You had to do it within a day for each level of the Cleric casting the spell. The recipient had to make a save for it to take, and you were bedridden a day for each day you were dead.

Heal? Restored all hit points except for 1d4, all disease, blindness, and feeblemind.

You needed the 7th level spell regenerate to grow back lopped-off body parts along with raise dead and heal to fully restore someone, or you needed the 7th level spell ressurection.

Someone who was drained of levels, had an amputated hand and feebleminded before dying in a single combat encounter? Not implausible in 1e, and you'd need to cast raise dead, regenerate, heal, and restoration to get them back in fighting form. A particularly cruel DM could screw with you if you didn't cast them in the right order...

 

[Garthanos]

Someone who was drained of levels, had an amputated hand and feebleminded before dying in a single combat encounter? Not implausible in 1e

SMDH yeh so not interested in playing with you

Also not consistent with any adventures or tables I ever saw. Or even from what I can tell the random encounter tables. But someone else will have to figure that insanity out. It sounds like someone making huge justifications for something silly stupid with a hypothetical extreme rarity.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

To me... if it is reasonable that hit point damage does not equate with physical injury, then it is equally reasonable that physical injury does not equate to hit point damage. Having a bleeding liver and a sliced up face won't necessarily impact your fighting ability, so there is no reason that a person at full hit points might not have some physical injuries.

Someone recovering all their hit points, particularly through something like hit dice expenditure and the natural recovery process, may not have all their physical injuries removed, they've just gotten used to them such that they no longer affect the character's ability to mitigate further damage.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Its dorfy dumb for raise the dead to be less difficult sorry utterly nonsense.

Honestly, not nonsensical enough to raise it's head above the general clouds of nonsense engulfing D&D.

Whereas bringing back the dead I want to be even higher level in part because .. send the rescue party to the grey realm or into the goddesses chalice and the like. Which to me is paragon class adventure in flavor. (and yes its ok to short circuit those eventually)

True, it's a whole dramatic arc waved away. OTOH, every time - and it hasn't been a /lot/ of times, just a few - that I have made a big deal and a whole adventure out of getting someone brought back to life (or have seen another DM do it), the result has been that the dramatically-raised character has either died again right away, or had to be written out of the plot because the player moved away or something. And that's just a profound antic-climax to what should be a powerful little story arc.[/quote]