D&D 5E Ban Variant-Human! Impact?

[Esker]

Am I missing something here?

Why are you starting the wood elf with 16 WIS rather than 14? If you shave starting WIS (pre-racial) from 15 to 13, you get 4 points to put back into STR and INT, starting you with 10 STR and 12 INT. So you're down one point in INT, which you can get back with the ASI you don't have to put into DEX.

 

[Esker]

Oh, I missed the CHA difference on the first read.

So the Wood Elf can start with 8,14,14,12,13,12, which becomes 8,16,14,12,14,12.
The human can start with 10,13,13,13,13,13, which becomes 11,14,14,14,14,14.

The elf starts out ahead in DEX, even in WIS, and down in STR/INT/CHA. At level 10, the two are even in DEX, WIS, and your choice of STR/INT/CHA, but the elf is still down in the other two stats.

If you are choosing a "scout" profile (perhaps even the Scout archetype), then you probably have expertise in Perception, Survival, Stealth, Nature, and two other things. If you wanted to also be a good "face", you could take deception and persuasion, and take expertise in those as well. So you need DEX, WIS, INT, and CHA for your skills. The wood elf will ultimately be down a point in one of those four. But they will have an extra skill proficiency, having gotten perception from their race, darkvision (useful for scouting and stealth), and advantage on certain WIS saves.

 

[Salthorae]

Rogues use all those ability scores and the recovering the higher costs of the initial 16's isn't as easy as adding an ASI later. I want generally good scores. Paying for those later is not nearly as efficient as waiting.

I think it's a stretch to say "rogues use all those ability scores". A rogue can use them all, but... so can any class.

Your version of a rogue might. Others definitely don't.

 

[Ashrym]

Why are you starting the wood elf with 16 WIS rather than 14? If you shave starting WIS (pre-racial) from 15 to 13, you get 4 points to put back into STR and INT, starting you with 10 STR and 12 INT. So you're down one point in INT, which you can get back with the ASI you don't have to put into DEX.

I was using the point buy spready I quoted from your example. Let me take another look.

"A DEX+INT or DEX+WIS class could be elf, and buy 15, 14, 14, 10, 10, 8" - so Wood Elf

8 STR
16 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
16 WIS
10 CHA

That becomes

10 STR
16 DEX
14 CON
12 INT
14 WIS
10 CHA

Now the STR, CON, and WIS are all the same. It's still 3 ASI's to match INT and CHA vs 1 to match DEX. INT is less important (really for investigation) but there is still that gap if I'm going for it.

There isn't really a way to match the actual broad build efficiency stand humans give that I've noticed.

I play fighters the same way. They don't do much outside of combat other than make ability checks so I make as many as possible.

 

[Ashrym]

I think it's a stretch to say "rogues use all those ability scores". A rogue can use them all, but... so can any class.

Your version of a rogue might. Others definitely don't.

And? I'm not sure how any class using those changes the way points are bought. It's cheaper to take the hit early than pay for the ASI's later. That's the point. If other classes do that they might want standard human too?

I was using rogue because Esker questioned the initial DEX hit on them, and rogues tend towards checks in general.

 

[Esker]

I play fighters the same way. They don't do much outside of combat other than make ability checks so I make as many as possible.

Do the other characters ever get to be the "go-to" for any skills? Seems like by spreading your skills out so much you're sucking a lot of air out of the skill sphere.

 

[Esker]

I was using rogue because Esker questioned the initial DEX hit on them, and rogues tend towards checks in general.

Rogues also probably benefit more than any other class from their primary stat, since they use it for attacks, AC, a common save, and often at least some of their important skills. It's a hefty price to pay to be down in DEX for 9 levels. And again, the other races get other benefits. Even in a very skill-heavy and combat-light game, having an extra proficiency to allocate (as from elf) is likely worth more than a +1 in a couple of your skills.

 

[Ashrym]

Do the other characters ever get to be the "go-to" for any skills? Seems like by spreading your skills out so much you're sucking a lot of air out of the skill sphere.

Bounded accuracy still lets anyone do it. Going broad just lets fighters succeed slightly more often then they would.

At 10th level when rogues gain reliable talent the +2 ability scores and +4 proficiency hits more auto-successes on DC 15 checks in the proficient skills.

 

[Esker]

At 10th level when rogues gain reliable talent the +2 ability scores and +4 proficiency hits more auto-successes on DC 15 checks in the proficient skills.

But when you get reliable talent, that extra proficiency becomes worth even more!

 

[Esker]

Bounded accuracy still lets anyone do it. Going broad just lets fighters succeed slightly more often then they would.

At 10th level when rogues gain reliable talent the +2 ability scores and +4 proficiency hits more auto-successes on DC 15 checks in the proficient skills.

Also you only need +1 with +4 proficiency to auto-succeed at DC 15 checks.