Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

[Cleon]

Yup, that works.

The original 5th level spell is telekinesis. Shall we just stick to that?

Yup, I'm fine with that. It's a versatile spell which should make it more useful for a solo combatant.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and before I forget:

Updating Screaming Child Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

So shall we do the "spell secret" ability next?

I'm thinking "Enlarge" for its gust of wind, "Silent" for its stinking cloud and "Still" for its black tentacles.

Actually, I am sorely tempted to cheat a bit and the Screaming Child a "spell secret" that allows it to add the Air descriptor to some Evocation and Creation spells if only to give the Child more than one spell to apply its Air Mastery too.

Actually, scrub that. I'd rather just rewrite the Air Mastery so it either adds the Air descriptor to spells that are air- or cloud-related (i.e. stinking cloud, cloudkill, etc) or simply affect them as "Air" spells.

The 1E Oriental Adventures wu jen has many spells in the "Air" category that do not have the Air descriptor in 3E.

The complete list is:

1st—cloud ladder, elemental burst (air), wall of fog.
2nd—fog cloud, smoke shape, smoky form, stinking cloud, wind breath, whispering wind.
3rd—cloudburst, steam breath, scry (air).
4th—elemental turning (air).
5th—conjure elemental (air), creeping darkness.
6th—NONE (no idea why they omitted control weather).
7th—NONE (should have included elemental servant (air)) .
8th—cloud trapeze, summoning wind, whirlwind.
9th—NONE.

As you can see, a few of the Screaming Child's spells should have the +2 DC from Air Mastery.

So how about rewriting it to:

Air Mastery: Whenever the Screaming Child casts an "Air" spell the saving throw DC is increased by 2, while the Child itself has a +2 competence bonus on saving throws against spells of that element. For purposes of this ability, an "Air" spell is any Evocation spell with the Air descriptor as well as any Conjuration spell used to summon a creature with the Air subtype, plus any other spells with a gaseous or atmospheric theme (i.e. most of the spells with "cloud", "fog", "gas(eous)", "mist", "storm", "weather" or "wind" in the spell name, even enchantment spells like mind fog, subject to the DM's discretion). This bonus stacks with the bonus conferred by the Spell Focus feat.

I also mused about having the bonus apply to any spell that targets an Air creature, but that seemed a bit overbalanced plus it did not reflect the original text:

Air Mastery (alt version): Whenever the Screaming Child casts an "Air" spell the saving throw DC is increased by 2, while the Child itself has a +2 competence bonus on saving throws against spells of that element. For purposes of this ability, an "Air" spell is any Evocation spell with the Air descriptor as well as any Conjuration spell used to summon a creature with the Air subtype, plus any other spells with a gaseous or atmospheric theme (i.e. most of the spells with "cloud", "fog", "gas(eous)", "mist", "storm", "weather" or "wind" in the spell name, even enchantment spells like mind fog, subject to the DM's discretion). In addition, Air Mastery applies to any spell used against a creature with the Air subtype, such as a dismissal spell targeting an air elemental, although in this case the +2 DC only applies to the Air creature's saving throws. This bonus stacks with the bonus conferred by the Spell Focus feat.

 

[freyar]

I like the first version you have there, except for the enchantments part. That seems to far afield to me. How about this?

Air Mastery: Whenever the Screaming Child casts an "Air" spell the saving throw DC is increased by 2, while the Child itself has a +2 competence bonus on saving throws against spells of that element. For purposes of this ability, an "Air" spell is any Evocation spell with the Air descriptor as well as any Conjuration spell used to summon a creature with the Air subtype, plus any other Conjuration, Evocation, or Transmutation spells with a gaseous or atmospheric theme (i.e. most of the spells with "cloud", "fog", "gas(eous)", "mist", "storm", "weather" or "wind" in the spell name). This bonus stacks with the bonus conferred by the Spell Focus feat.

 

[Cleon]

I like the first version you have there, except for the enchantments part. That seems to far afield to me. How about this?

Well I liked mind fog on the list since the spell literally creates a mist that clouds the mind - that seems a good fit for a "gaseous or atmospheric theme".

The 1E Wu Jen's Element Mastery did not only include Conjuration, Evocation and Transmutation spells. Glancing through the book, I see Abjuration spells (i.e. elemental turning, various wall spells) and Enchantment/Charm spells (i.e. fire enchantment). I'm not that concerned about the increased range being "unbalanced" since it's a monster. If it was an ability a PC could get their mitts on I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

If the specific example of mind fog bothers you, how about we just leave the choice up to the DM?

i.e.:

Air Mastery #2: Whenever the Screaming Child casts an "Air" spell the saving throw DC is increased by 2, while the Child itself has a +2 competence bonus on saving throws against spells of that element. For purposes of this ability, an "Air" spell is any Evocation spell with the Air descriptor as well as any Conjuration spell used to summon a creature with the Air subtype, plus any other spells with a gaseous or atmospheric theme (i.e. most of the spells with "cloud", "fog", "gas(eous)", "mist", "storm", "weather" or "wind" in the spell name), subject to the DM's discretion. This bonus stacks with the bonus conferred by the Spell Focus feat.

Incidentally, the "stacking with Spell Focus" bit bothers me more than letting the DC/save bonus apply to mind fog.

Air Mastery #3: Whenever the Screaming Child casts an "Air" spell the saving throw DC is increased by 2, while the Child itself has a +2 competence bonus on saving throws against spells of that element. For purposes of this ability, an "Air" spell is any Evocation spell with the Air descriptor as well as any Conjuration spell used to summon a creature with the Air subtype, plus any other spells with a gaseous or atmospheric theme (i.e. most of the spells with "cloud", "fog", "gas(eous)", "mist", "storm", "weather" or "wind" in the spell name), subject to the DM's discretion. This ability's spell DC bonus effects do not stack with the Spell Focus feat.

 

[freyar]

Hmmmph. It wasn't really the specific example of mind fog as much as just not exactly getting the connection between "Air" and "enchantment." But I guess mind fog does kind of conjure something up, even if it is an enchantment.

So I can go with either your version #2 or #3 here as you prefer on the DC. But you can change "do not stack with the Spell Focus feat" to "overlaps with the Spell Focus feat" to save verbiage.

 

[Cleon]

Hmmmph. It wasn't really the specific example of mind fog as much as just not exactly getting the connection between "Air" and "enchantment." But I guess mind fog does kind of conjure something up, even if it is an enchantment.

Glad we finally agree.

So I can go with either your version #2 or #3 here as you prefer on the DC. But you can change "do not stack with the Spell Focus feat" to "overlaps with the Spell Focus feat" to save verbiage.

I think I'll go for #3 then.

We need to keep the "Stack" since that's the term used in 3E, but to cut down the verbiage I can change it to "This ability stacks with the Spell Focus feat."

Updating Screaming Child Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

I think fog cloud and stinking cloud need a superscript A for the air mastery.

There are at least a few places in the SRD where "overlap" is used as a synonym for "does not stack." I thought there was actually somewhere they actually say that explicitly, but maybe that's in one of the rulebooks and not the SRD proper.

Do we want to add the Spell Secrets? And it casts as a 9th-level wiz despite the 12 HD, so just 3 spell secrets? If so, the strongest spells it could add Spell Secrets to as it "goes up in level" are 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. If we're doing that, how about Extended hideous laughter, Extended haste, ? telekinesis. These aren't that great, so I can't say I mind too much if we add it or not.

 

[Cleon]

I think fog cloud and stinking cloud need a superscript A for the air mastery.

Yup. I was putting that off until we'd decided on the wording.

Updating Screaming Child Working Draft.

Incidentally, it's not a capital A character that's been superscripted but an actual ᴬ character. Makes it easier to preserve the line spacing.

There are at least a few places in the SRD where "overlap" is used as a synonym for "does not stack." I thought there was actually somewhere they actually say that explicitly, but maybe that's in one of the rulebooks and not the SRD proper.

Do we want to add the Spell Secrets? And it casts as a 9th-level wiz despite the 12 HD, so just 3 spell secrets? If so, the strongest spells it could add Spell Secrets to as it "goes up in level" are 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. If we're doing that, how about Extended hideous laughter, Extended haste, ? telekinesis. These aren't that great, so I can't say I mind too much if we add it or not.

Updating Screaming Child Working Draft.

There are at least a few places in the SRD where "overlap" is used as a synonym for "does not stack." I thought there was actually somewhere they actually say that explicitly, but maybe that's in one of the rulebooks and not the SRD proper.

Do we want to add the Spell Secrets? And it casts as a 9th-level wiz despite the 12 HD, so just 3 spell secrets? If so, the strongest spells it could add Spell Secrets to as it "goes up in level" are 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. If we're doing that, how about Extended hideous laughter, Extended haste, ? telekinesis. These aren't that great, so I can't say I mind too much if we add it or not.

I'm thinking we should make some or most of them "Air" spells to keep in theme.

How about enlarged gust of wind, extended stinking cloud, silenced telekinesis?

For the ability description, how about this:

Spell Secrets: At caster level 3, and every 3 caster levels thereafter, the Screaming Child can choose one spell it knows that then becomes permanently modified as though affected by either the Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Still Spell, or Silent Spell feat (note the Child does not need to actually know the metamagic feat). The spell's level does not change, and the choice of spell and feat cannot be changed once made. As the Screaming Child's caster level increases, it can modify the same spell with multiple spell secrets. A standard Screaming Child has the spellcasting ability of a 9th level wizard, giving it three spell secrets it will have used to modify a 0-2nd level spell at CL 3, a 0-3rd level spell at CL 6, and a 0-5th level spell at CL 9.

 

[freyar]

That all sounds good to me!

I'll agree to dropping the taboo SQ.

I guess it's time to work out the rattle. I'd say the base function is as a mace with an ability to make bull rush attacks, which I'd treat like a trip weapon, I think. But it also looks like it converts into something like a flail with an extended reach, or it can produce something like the flare spell. Sound about right?