D&D 5E Why does Wizards of the Coast hate Wizards?

[Ashrym]

1st level is not a great place to compare, as Raging Barbarian FTW since DMG reduction is huge at that point and becomes increasingly obsolescent as one advances and Monster attacks become magic infused.

A 1st level dragon Sorc gets a free Mage Armor via scales and Extra HP, which a Wizard cannot do, which refutes your point above.

The new UA ability further gives the Sorc an at will, ( Sorcery points required), False Life, which exacerbates the 1st lvl Sorc survives, the Wizard dies and rolls a new character syndrome.
False Life as written, is not quite good enough to select as one of your 6 first level Wiz spells at character creation, especially not over a Ritual spell.

A 1st level Wild Magic Sorc gets easy Advantage on rolls, and with Bend Luck later the ability to make spells actually effective. (Especially with Heightened Spell Metamagic).
Bounded Math means spells get resisted, often, and frequently on the round cast, and very quickly thereafter if the 1st ability Check....or so called 5e ‘Saving Throw’ is made on the subsequent rounds.

The self directed ability to make spells ‘stick’, as it were, is rather potent, and not easy for the Wizard to do.

The Twinned Spell Metamagic allows a 3rd level Sorc with Charm Person to emulate the 10th level Enchanter ability of Split Enchantment for 1 Sorc point.

Also, let’s face it, at 3rd level a Twinned Ice Knife is like Richard Roundtree....sexy and a bad mofo!

Font of Magic, moreover, is already an ability, that can be used to convert unused spells into potentially more permanent forms like Glyphs of Warding....in a campaign setting where the player has a home base, (Say the Trollskull Tavern in the Waterdeep Adventures) this could easily justify a 2 level dip into Sorc.

A 5e Wizard uses magic, but a 5e Sorc is Magic....and the UA additions, while being cool and flavorful only drive that point home further. If being a Sage is not a Wizard trope, as some seem to be asserting in this thread, then surely a Wizard should be a master of magic.
Yet in 5e, Magic casting by classes with D8+ Hit Dice is just as good, with better class abilities added in.....why chose a lower hp class, when one can often do the same with a class that has more HP.

Ron, Harry, Hermione, Snape, Dumbledore, Tom Riddle....they were suckers going to Hogswarts and studying for OWLs......they should have Tuned in, Dropped out and became Sorcerers and cast Avada Kedavra Heightened or Twinned.

Metamagic is awesome, but where are all these sorcery points coming from? I might have missed something.

It's not that being a sage isn't a wizard trope. It's also very much a bard trope which is why bards with expertise isn't stepping on toes. Meeting the trope doesn't require expertise because it comes from the high intelligence bonus.

Did you read the grey box under Spell versatility? "It says cantrips are spells, and all the options a spell caster has also applies to cantrips unless otherwise stated." Which means, when a wizard takes a long rest, they can change their cantrips prepared with unprepared ones in their spellbook. Now there's a reason to copy cantrips to your spellbook. When they level, they can switch out a cantrip to one they don't already have, which also means, every level they gain a new cantrip they can automatically copy to their spellbook.

That doesn't work. The PHB specifically requires spells to be 1st level or higher to be scribed into the spell book.

" Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table."

You are about half a decade late for that argument.

 

[neogod22]

What UA are you reading?
wizard thing

warlock thing


sorcerer thing

[/QUOTE]Look under the bard, it's the very 1st time it shows up, there's a grey box under it.

 

[neogod22]

Metamagic is awesome, but where are all these sorcery points coming from? I might have missed something.

It's not that being a sage isn't a wizard trope. It's also very much a bard trope which is why bards with expertise isn't stepping on toes. Meeting the trope doesn't require expertise because it comes from the high intelligence bonus.



That doesn't work. The PHB specifically requires spells to be 1st level or higher to be scribed into the spell book.

" Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table."

You are about half a decade late for that argument.

I understand that but, in every written adventure there are always cantrips found in the spell books of wizards. Some adventures you'll even find scrolls of cantrips. So either they forgot that's not suppoed to happen, or they decided to ignore thst stupid rule. Also even if you can't copy them, any cantrip you learn goes in your spellbook, so if you switch every level, you'll eventually get all of them.

 

[Bitbrain]

wanders in after waking up. Reads entirety of thread

This might honestly be the first thread I’ve ever read for 5e where someone is suggesting that the WIZARD class is not getting enough love and attention.

I personally believe that the Sorcerer, with this latest round of UA, is finally getting some much-needed improvements (although I still argue that what they really need more than anything is more sorcery points).

 

[tetrasodium]

Look under the bard, it's the very 1st time it shows up, there's a grey box under it.
Thanks
The bard thing

Spell Versatility
1st-level bard feature (enhances Spellcasting)
Whenever you finish a long rest, you can replace
one spell you learned from this Spellcasting
feature with another spell from the bard spell
list. The new spell must be the same level as the
spell you replace.
Rule Tip: Cantrips Are Spells
Cantrips are 0-level spells, which don’t use spell slots.
When a feature applies to spells, that feature applies to
cantrips, unless the feature specifies that the spells
must be of 1st level or higher or must expend a spell

That means that the sorcerer is effectively getting the same or better abaility to change prepped spells (less changing/long rest but no cost of building a spellbook & not limited to spells in a spell) plus
an objectively better version of the wizard's cantrip flexibility

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yep, with Spell Versatility all the other caster classes become "long-term prepared" casters with access to all the spells in their lists, and wizards become the only class completely limited to spells they have learned. And honestly, the concept of known spells is poor IMO since what really is the difference between knowing something and having learned it.

 

[Guest 6801328]

MM recently tweeted this:

Contrary to rumor, we don't hate Wizards. We really just hate Todd Roybark. Wizards are unfortunate but necessary collateral damage.

 

[neogod22]

Look under the bard, it's the very 1st time it shows up, there's a grey box under it.
Thanks
The bard thing

That means that the sorcerer is effectively getting the same or better abaility to change prepped spells (less changing/long rest but no cost of building a spellbook & not limited to spells in a spell) plus
an objectively better version of the wizard's cantrip flexibility

No, even though I personally don't like the idea of bards and sorcerers changing spells at libg rest, it's not better than the wizard's ability. Bards and sorcerers can only change 1 spell per rest, while a wizard can change their entire spell list provided they have enough spells. I probably wouldn't allow spell versatility for bards and sorcerers, but will allow them to change a cantrip along with a spell when they level. Well maybe I'd allow a bard to do it the way wizards do, but they would have to carry somethimg similar to a spellbook. IDK why they don't. I would even do the same with Eldritch Knights and arcane tricksters if they chose to carry a spellbook.

One thing I would not allow at all would be martial versatility. Having warriors change their fighting style is stupid. Maybe if it were restricted to when you level could be fine, but your fighting style is suppoed to be your specialization.

 

[DND_Reborn]

One thing I would not allow at all would be martial versatility. Having warriors change their fighting style is stupid. Maybe if it were restricted to when you level could be fine, but your fighting style is suppoed to be your specialization.

Quick aside I agree that a change with level is fine for fighting style, but more often than that is too much.

 

[tetrasodium]

wanders in after waking up. Reads entirety of thread

This might honestly be the first thread I’ve ever read for 5e where someone is suggesting that the WIZARD class is not getting enough love and attention.

I personally believe that the Sorcerer, with this latest round of UA, is finally getting some much-needed improvements (although I still argue that what they really need more than anything is more sorcery points).

Nobody is saying that was not the case with what sorcerer is getting, just that it's also get

No, even though I personally don't like the idea of bards and sorcerers changing spells at libg rest, it's not better than the wizard's ability. Bards and sorcerers can only change 1 spell per rest, while a wizard can change their entire spell list provided they have enough spells. I probably wouldn't allow spell versatility for bards and sorcerers, but will allow them to change a cantrip along with a spell when they level. Well maybe I'd allow a bard to do it the way wizards do, but they would have to carry somethimg similar to a spellbook. IDK why they don't. I would even do the same with Eldritch Knights and arcane tricksters if they chose to carry a spellbook.

One thing I would not allow at all would be martial versatility. Having warriors change their fighting style is stupid. Maybe if it were restricted to when you level could be fine, but your fighting style is suppoed to be your specialization.

you can argue if the limit of only being able to swap 1 spell & having access to every spell on your class list for that swap is balanced against being able to swap any amount of spells you can prep but needing to invest huge sums of coin into maintaining a spellbook... but nobody is arguing thatbecause it's a subjective thing that comes down to opinion with good & bad points to either side. Nobody is saying the sorc thing is too good, the people coming in to "defend" sorcerers who are not being attacked are feeling downright bizarre.... Seriously, you don't see peopl coming in to defend bards/rangers/paladin against all the attacks & nerf requests nobody is making towards them, why allthe sorcerer defense?

The problem is with the wizard cantrip versatility. That problem is the fact that it is limited to both onlevel and 1/level. It should be changed to 1/long rest so it functions like spell versatility.