D&D 5E Countering Rest Spells (Tiny Hut, Rope Trick, et al)

[Tony Vargas]

That's what 4e did. The addition of daily powers and healing surges is the only variable.

Daily powers (class & item) and surges (among other things, like Action Points) meant that was not what 4e did, at all. It was better-balanced across a day, regardless of pacing, because class designs were more consistent, but it wasn't outright encounter-based, just not outright broken by deviations from the expected pacing.

"D&D" Gamma World, c2010, was even closer to encounter-based, but still had an odd few things that were 'daily' or re-set on a long rest.

I can't think of a d20 or relatively D&D-ish game that was wholly encounter-based.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Daily powers (class & item) and surges (among other things, like Action Points) meant that was not what 4e did, at all. It was better-balanced across a day, regardless of pacing, because class designs were more consistent, but it wasn't outright encounter-based, just not outright broken by deviations from the expected pacing.

You're forgetting that 4e began life as the second/revised edition of the miniatures tactical/skirmish combat game where literally everything was encounter based. They added daily powers, social skills, limited healing surges, and utility powers to turn it into a TTRPG. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You're forgetting the (3e) miniatures tactical/skirmish combat game where literally everything was encounter based.

I don't remember the 3e Miniature Handbook being entirely encounter-based, either. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it at the time, but I'd've thought that'd've stood out... (I do recall that it looked like it had been written for 3.0, but been published under 3.5)...

...in any case, taking 5e to an entirely encounters-based paradigm would remove the issues with the spells under consideration in this thread (they'd become a matter of managing rests to avoid/recover from exhaustion, presumably).

Since we do have the 6-8 encounter/2-3 short rest target to work from, it wouldn't be difficult, just involved. Dividing daily resources by 8 and short-rest resources by 2 should yield you the 'ration' of limited-resource abilities appropriate to a single encounter. Work that through the slots/day and various other class resources and you're there. Monsters shouldn't require adjustment, since they're already generally only in it for their one encounter.

 

[Retreater]

Tiny hut in its ritual form does not require any ressources.

Ah. I don't let my players use rituals for free. I require the expenditure of the material components. So if you require the characters to use a tiny crystal bead (the material component of Tiny Hut) for each casting, they'll have to conserve their resources.
There's always a way to limit your characters. And if they argue, just tell them you're adding this constraint to improve the challenge (and fun) of the game. And if that doesn't work, up the difficulty of each encounter to Deadly level or add time limits for their missions.

 

[Arilyn]

Actually, you'd think rituals, by default, should all require material components.

 

[Oofta]

Actually, you'd think rituals, by default, should all require material components.

They do if the material component is consumed.

 

[tetrasodium]

They do if the material component is consumed.

Tiny hut is not one of the ritual spells that consume the component, there is no notable cost to a small crystal bead, and even if it were consumed wotc ensured it would also continue to be something with no notable weight (given carrying capacities) despite the spell being massively enhanced over prior versions

 

[Retreater]

Tiny hut is not one of the ritual spells that consume the component, there is no notable cost to a small crystal bead, and even if it were consumed wotc ensured it would also continue to be something with no notable weight (given carrying capacities) despite the spell being massively enhanced over prior versions

WotC can be wrong when it comes to how to implement things in your campaign. If a rule is taking away the fun, change it. Rule that the crystal bead must be pure, or crafted a certain way, or rare in a way. Or maybe the quality of the crystal determines the quality of the Hut that is created? If there are cracks or imperfections in the crystal bead, guess what kind of Hut you'll get?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Or maybe the quality of the crystal determines the quality of the Hut that is created? If there are cracks or imperfections in the crystal bead, guess what kind of Hut you'll get?

"We still can't break through it, sir, but we can sue them for lowering property values in the neighborhood because it's an eyesore..." - Hobgoblin Lieutenant with the Solicitor background.

 

[tetrasodium]

WotC can be wrong when it comes to how to implement things in your campaign. If a rule is taking away the fun, change it. Rule that the crystal bead must be pure, or crafted a certain way, or rare in a way. Or maybe the quality of the crystal determines the quality of the Hut that is created? If there are cracks or imperfections in the crystal bead, guess what kind of Hut you'll get?

Oh indeed, the problem is not with finding ways to counter it so much as the blatant cranking of the munckin dial past 11 on the spell in so many ways that it makes them all but certain to be deliberate choices. While there are indeed many ways to counter or just ban the spell, doing so stretches believeability & rushes down an adversarial gm vrs players road. None of that was unsaid in the original thread or this thread, they are just the elephant being continually ignored by people saying "just do x".