D&D 5E Countering Rest Spells (Tiny Hut, Rope Trick, et al)

[Asisreo]

Says who? What makes you think the party will be 100% out of spells and other resources when they go to rest?

You're good with assuming that the enemy will have on hand or be able to run around the corner to Home Depot to get all they need to screw over the resting party, but have trouble with thinking that the party will have a brain or resources of their own handy. Why is that?



I haven't forgotten. It's just not relevant for a lot of what the party can accomplish or plan for.



Maybe, but I think probably not.

What, as a DM, are you trying to accomplish? And by what metric do you use? If you're trying to challenge your players, know there are different ways than reducing HP and spell slots. If they solve this scenario by coming up with a logical solution, they were challenged and came up on top. There's no need to have them bending under your will in between every short rest.

I don't know what you're after Max. I would hope it's to have mutual fun at your table by discussing ways to challenge players with this spell prepared. But at this point, it seems you only want to disapprove the use of this spell which isn't healthy. I'm actually interested what you are trying to accomplish.

"All players are smart" is not a reason why something is broken. Not all players are as creative or logical as you think and some things they do just plain won't work. You have the benefit to think over the course of hours to think of things players can do but players have only a few minutes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Remember, you use a 1 week long rest. Most people use 8 hours and it's unlikely that the dragon will be able to find a wizard like that within 4 hours of the remote location it lives in.

It the dragon is unlikely to find a Hut, it’s even less likely to find a carefully hidden camp set up by the party ranger.

 

[Maxperson]

It the dragon is unlikely to find a Hut, it’s even less likely to find a carefully hidden camp set up by the party ranger.

I think you need to re-read that exchange.

 

[Asisreo]

Again, you do not get it.
No, getting the party to come out of the hut before 8 hours is not the whole point when you take loads of damage in doing so or give the party time to heal and buff up with a short rest or potions/spells.

This 3rd level spell is extremely versatile and hugely powerful compared to what other spells of this level can do. Sure, when you mentally reduce it just a resting spell it might be in line, but that is just one use of the spell.
It is also a superb offensive spell if you can manage to cast it or a good defensive position to be casted right before combat which, as you prove, requires a lot of DM fiat and resources to counter and makes dispel magic a requirement to have which alone shows that Tiny Hut is OP.

There are limited offensive capabilities in Leomund's. Defensively, it's alright but not as good as you think. On the offense, it's assumed your storming someone else's keep and, as I said, there probably are going to be constant interruptions before 11 minutes pass. Defensively, yeah it's an indestructible bubble but it can only protect creatures and objects within a 10 ft radius. It can't be moved so you're stuck and it can't defend an entire castle. And again, 1 minute casting which means if combat has started you won't get away with it until combat has ended, most likely. You can't move either, as the wizard so there's no multiple casting cheese.

It's within the league of fireball, which is also said to be "overpowered" yet hardly anyone would ban that spell. There is versatility in fireball beyond damage too. I won't get into it now, though

 

[Anoth]

There seems to be a common theory that dragons have to be fundamentally flawed so that adventurers have a chance.

I don't do that except maybe for white dragons because those are not particularly intelligent. A dragon fight in my game against an adult or older dragon is always going to have the dragon using every option at their disposal. They'll never be caught in the open, never get into melee unless they absolutely have to and so on.

But that's a different thread.

I think i love you

 

[Oofta]

You're the one who has had to resort to dragons. Dragons are very rare. But I get it. You can't really explain how every other intelligent creature has just what it needs when the party is resting inside the dome, so you went to dragons.

No ... I was mentioning an example someone had given of how broken TH is.

You on the other hand keep insisting that the dragon has no effective options.

 

[Maxperson]

What, as a DM, are you trying to accomplish? And by what metric do you use? If you're trying to challenge your players, know there are different ways than reducing HP and spell slots. If they solve this scenario by coming up with a logical solution, they were challenged and came up on top. There's no need to have them bending under your will in between every short rest.

My goals are to challenge the players via their PCs and create an enjoyable game.

What breaks spells for me is generally not power. I'm really not overly concerned with balance. 3e was a bit too unbalanced for me, but I still loved it. 1e and 2e were fine. What breaks spells for me is when they allow the group to bypass significant portions of the game.

Pre-5e teleport and Rope Trick are prime examples. The doesn't actually bother me, because it's visible and the world can interact with it. The Rope Trick being both invisible and placed high up in the air means that it will almost never be interacted with.

"All players are smart" is not a reason why something is broken. Not all players are as creative or logical as you think and some things they do just plain won't work. You have the benefit to think over the course of hours to think of things players can do but players have only a few minutes.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by playing with a bunch of highly intelligent and highly creative people for so long. It generally only takes a few minutes for them(or myself) to come up with something great. And I'm not saying that everything will work.

 

[Maxperson]

No ... I was mentioning an example someone had given of how broken TH is.

You on the other hand keep insisting that the dragon has no effective options.

Bzzzzt! Nope. I'm saying that the players also have effective options that they can use in response to what the dragons come up with.

 

[Asisreo]

You're the one who has had to resort to dragons. Dragons are very rare. But I get it. You can't really explain how every other intelligent creature has just what it needs when the party is resting inside the dome, so you went to dragons.

And this whole "mhmmm, you must be too dumb so you're resorting to roundabout things to confuse me" stuff is disrespectful. You prove nothing by strawmanning and only hurt your own credibility.

 

[Maxperson]

And this whole "mhmmm, you must be too dumb so you're resorting to roundabout things to confuse me" stuff is disrespectful. You prove nothing by strawmanning and only hurt your own credibility.

I give what I get. I didn't start that tone. Nor have I engaged in a Strawman. I just tossed his attitude and comment back his way. Which by the way, is why you aren't getting the same tone. You're engaging me in civil conversation, so that's what you are getting back.