Only the Lonely: Why We Demand Official Product

[Fenris-77]

Honest question, why in the nine hells would you ever convert something progressively? That's silly.

 

[jmucchiello]

Once 3e established a standardized skill system for D&D, it is easy enough to establish that everything is a skill (Spycraft Shadowforce Archer used this approach to psionics, using feats as the entrance ticket). Also easy enough to establish that your skills improve more quickly the more you use them rather than being given a chunk of skill points at each level where you could add to a skill even if you didn't use it at all at your previous level

This is Runequest circa 1988. And if you noticed, 5e reduced the customization of skills compared to 3e. It was "too fiddly."

 

[3catcircus]

Honest question, why in the nine hells would you ever convert something progressively? That's silly.

Take a look at something that WotC has provided stats for across editions - a random monster, one of the famous NPCs, etc. Tell me they're self-consistent in all cases...

Or look at the 3e time of horrors 3pp conversion of older edition monster stats and compare to a later WotC product that finally got around to doing the conversion.

And those are done by the "professionals" as opposed to some random DM for their home campaign.

 

[jmucchiello]

This. Ask 10 people to convert some type of mechanical info from prior editions to 5e and you'll get 10 different results. Even worse ask them to progressively convert from 1e -> 2e -> 3e -> 4e -> 5e and watch the analysis paralysis set in.

The real problem with progressive conversion is age. To do the conversions, you should have experience with all 5 editions. Aside from us old timers, most people don't have that experience. And some of us skipped 2e or 4e (inverse Star Trek movie rule).

Regardless, as I say for all conversion projects (whether between editions of a game or between different game systems), never attempt to convert mechanics directly. Convert the fluff and assign mechanics using the target game based on the fluff you wish to achieve.

You don't find a stat block of Mordenkainen and convert it. You create a 5e "powerful, infamous wizard" and create a stat block using the 5e rules.

 

[Fenris-77]

Take a look at something that WotC has provided stats for across editions - a random monster, one of the famous NPCs, etc. Tell me they're self-consistent in all cases...

Or look at the 3e time of horrors 3pp conversion of older edition monster stats and compare to a later WotC product that finally got around to doing the conversion.

And those are done by the "professionals" as opposed to some random DM for their home campaign.

I wouldn't tell you that because it's not true. Lots of things ebb and flow form edition to edition. But it's also not one person, or even the same team of people making the edition to edition changes. If it were the same person the results would be a lot more linear. I'm not sure what the example of progressive conversion was supposed to prove. Maybe I'm missing something about the conversation upstream....

 

[3catcircus]

This is Runequest circa 1988. And if you noticed, 5e reduced the customization of skills compared to 3e. It was "too fiddly."

Too fiddly if all you are doing is cataloging academic type skills (do we need rhetoric and oratory as separate skills)?

Now do it with combat skills... I'd broadly group weapons, use feats as the entrance to becoming skilled in that group, and allow advancement of them as skills. This would allow say, a Gandalf with Glamdring that doesn't suck, or a Fafhrd that can actually fight, type of PC.

 

[jmucchiello]

That's still Runequest.

 

[3catcircus]

I wouldn't tell you that because it's not true. Lots of things ebb and flow form edition to edition. But it's also not one person, or even the same team of people making the edition to edition changes. If it were the same person the results would be a lot more linear. I'm not sure what the example of progressive conversion was supposed to prove. Maybe I'm missing something about the conversation upstream....

Sometimes, arbitrary decisions need to be made on a conversion, and differences in stats and abilities in different editions illustrates that. Something coming from WotC may have more "authority" than whatever your DM decides in doing a conversion.

 

[3catcircus]

That's still Runequest.

Not arguing that, except it's not a d20-based system.

Only issue I potentially see is the less granularity of a d20 vs d100, but it's still possible to do this with a d20 system.

Actually if i got to decide 6e D&D mechanics, I'm partial to a d20 dice pool, attribute+skill as the target number, roll under system, where skill ranks give you more dice to roll.

 

[Fenris-77]

Sometimes, arbitrary decisions need to be made on a conversion, and differences in stats and abilities in different editions illustrates that. Something coming from WotC may have more "authority" than whatever your DM decides in doing a conversion.

Yeah, I'd agree, generally that's the case. It doesn't mean it's always better, but you weren't suggesting that.