D&D 5E Homebrew Marshal Class (+Thread)

[Fenris-77]

Wouldn't it then be simpler to just make ALL spells into saves then?

In one way yes, but at the cost of making spells potentially far less effective against foes with lousy armor but great saves.

 

[Tony Vargas]

DC versus AC allows planning on the part of the characters o overcome high armor in the first case and high saves on the second.

Just like having AC vs Touch AC vs 3 saves in 3e, or AC & 3 other defenses in 4e, though.

Help doesn't really interact with spells, but I suspect, personally, that that is on purpose. Especially at higher tiers the deck is already tilted in favor of spell casting and non-spell casters don't have the option of any 'target saves' ability to help get around really high ACs.

Sounds plausible.

In one way yes, but at the cost of making spells potentially far less effective against foes with lousy armor but great saves.

Except that, well, are there many such foes, at all?

 

[Fenris-77]

Yeah, that was my point. You need both target AC and target save spells to cover the variety of targets. Having it all target saves would be simpler from a mechanical standpoint because there's only one mechanic, not two, but in practice it makes spells less useful, so it's not a good idea.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sorry, that was a tangent, and we're not even discussing a possible Mage-Captain/Arcane Battlemaster/Infernal Strategist/whatever sub-class yet....

 

[Fenris-77]

It's perfectly cromulent as part of a larger discussion about a support class. There's a reason 5e's direct support tends to target melee rather than spell casting. All my tinkering with the Warlord generally has indexed non-spellcasters pretty much exclusively, or, more specifically, non-spellcasting actions. Although cantrips are a nice easy place to blur that line, as we've seen in other thread (maybe even this thread, I get them confused).

 

[Tony Vargas]

There's a reason 5e's direct support tends to target melee* rather than spell casting.

Beyond the saves vs AC point you made above?







* not that casting & melee are exclusive in 5e.

 

[Fenris-77]

Beyond the saves vs AC point you made above?

Yeah, I suspect it has to do with the power tilt toward spellcasting generally at higher tiers. Help isn't a huge buff, but it can help melee experts be more effective against high AC targets. Spellcasters don't need the same help, at any tier really.

Edit - And those melee experts often don't have access to 'target save' abilities to deploy against those high AC targets. So they get 'help' because they need the help.

 

[Undrave]

Yeah, I suspect it has to do with the power tilt toward spellcasting generally at higher tiers. Help isn't a huge buff, but it can help melee experts be more effective against high AC targets. Spellcasters don't need the same help, at any tier really.

Edit - And those melee experts often don't have access to 'target save' abilities to deploy against those high AC targets. So they get 'help' because they need the help.

AUGH... 5e is really a Spellcaster's game but it doesn't have the decency to be open about it...

 

[Fenris-77]

Yes and no. Keep in mind that everything is optional. For example, I might think very hard about limiting class choice for an intrigue campaign to half casters or worse, same thing for a lower magic approach to generally high magic settings. Gives a very different feel to the game.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

DC versus AC allows planning on the part of the characters o overcome high armor in the first case and high saves on the second.

Help doesn't really interact with spells, but I suspect, personally, that that is on purpose. Especially at higher tiers the deck is already tilted in favor of spell casting and non-spell casters don't have the option of any 'target saves' ability to help get around really high ACs.

One thing I loved in 4e was that the monk mostly targeted non armor defenses. Not only was it funny that the punchy class hit enemies in the NADs, but it also provided a melee combatant that targeted the defenses normally targeted by casters and some rare martial encounter and daily powers.