How would you change the new Star Wars trilogy

[billd91]

This. Good gods, people, sitting silent on your plans and asking for unwavering, unquestioning loyalty is stupid for a military leader! Poe was one of her leading subordinates. There is no reason why she should not have made him aware of the plan.

Except for the fact that's he's a loose cannon who can't be trusted to sit on his hands, you mean? When he, Finn, and Rose figured out how the First Order was tracking them through hyperspace and hatched their plan, did he put it up the chain of command? For all Holdo and Leia knew, there was a leak (if not an outright traitor) and Poe (and any other junior officers) might be the leak and he does enough shady, questionable stuff to indicate his discretion and self-control might not be high quality.
I might agree that telling the crew something was under way and not just an inevitably futile run might have been prudent. But details? I can see a reluctance to share the secret plan.

 

[Umbran]

Except for the fact that's he's a loose cannon who can't be trusted to sit on his hands, you mean?

Right. And not telling him what was going on worked soooooo much better! {/sarcasm}

 

[Guang]

A bit off topic, but.....

I've often wished for something like this for the Hobbit movies. Cut out all the silly slapstick and tighten it back up into the nail-biting fun adventure it should have been.

 

[Morrus]

This. Good gods, people, sitting silent on your plans and asking for unwavering, unquestioning loyalty is stupid for a military leader! Poe was one of her leading subordinates. There is no reason why she should not have made him aware of the plan.

I can't remember it exactly, but if I were to tell anybody my plans, it probably wouldn't be Commander Insubordinately Disobeys Orders And Just Got Demoted And Might Even Be The Spy. I find her lack of patience with Poe to be pretty understandable.

Also agreed. Honestly, why aren't hyperspace missiles a thing? Why was this a thing about hyperdrive, and not just a ramming speed! thing?

Yeah, I agree that's definitely an issue with most sci-fi -- it basically breaks the genre (as do most laws of physics). I think you just have to buy into the fact that the chosen aesthetic WW2 planes in space, acting like they're not in space. Star Trek is just as silly, in different ways.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah, I agree that's definitely an issue with most sci-fi -- it basically breaks the genre (as do most laws of physics). I think you just have to buy into the fact that the chosen aesthetic WW2 planes in space, acting like they're not in space. Star Trek is just as silly, in different ways.

Oh, that's not what I mean at all. It has nothing to do with the laws of physics, and everything to do with internal consistency.

If using hyperdrive was going to be particularly effective... why have we not seen that tactic ever before? In all the desperate moments in al the movies, not once. The hyperdrive has existed for... thousands of years in the Star Wars universe, and Holdo is the first person to think of firing up the hyperdrive to ram something? Really?

Why didn't they just point a bunch of hyperdrive ships (or just rocks with hyperdrives attached) at the Death Star and let fly? Why all this nonsense about hitting a 2-meter port, when you could whollop the tar out of the thing by slamming hyperdrive-driven masses at it?

I have no problem with how the ships fly. I don't have a problem with planet-wrecking weapons. I have a problem with the supposedly new and shocking technique having been ready at hand through seven other movies and a ton of other content, but not used or discussed.

 

[Morrus]

If using hyperdrive was going to be particularly effective... why have we not seen that tactic ever before? In all the desperate moments in al the movies, not once. The hyperdrive has existed for... thousands of years in the Star Wars universe, and Holdo is the first person to think of firing up the hyperdrive to ram something? Really?

Well, we know the actual answer to that - Rian Johnson was the first director to think of it. And JJ Abrams retconned it away again as only working one time in a million in the latest film.

 

[Umbran]

Well, we know the actual answer to that - Rian Johnson was the first director to think of it.

I am not sure if this is supposed to be some sort of excuse, or something.

Johnson made one of the more common mistakes of blockbusters - reaching for a cool FX shot, but having the in-story excuse for it contradict the already established narrative.

And JJ Abrams retconned it away again as only working one time in a million in the latest film.

Thus compounding the stupid, and making Holdo's move worse.

They had already determined that you can jump to hyperdrive through a solid object without damaging it - as Solo jumps the Falcon out of a cargo bay, and through planetary shields (which, if they paste ships flying into them, are "solid" for our purposes).

So, that one in a million shot - what happens the other 999,999 times? Half of them, she jumps too late, and it is just a ram. The other half... she jumps too early, and misses her target entirely?

If Abrams is to believed, Holdo thought a 50% chance to miss her target and run away into hyperspace leaving her people behind was an acceptable choice. So, no, I don't consider that an acceptable response to the issue.

 

[Morrus]

I am not sure if this is supposed to be some sort of excuse, or something.

It's not. I don't feel the need to make excuses for millionaire filmmakers. I'm just saying that's what happened.

I agree. It's a rubbish reason. But it is the reason.

 

[Longspeak]

I can't remember it exactly, but if I were to tell anybody my plans, it probably wouldn't be Commander Insubordinately Disobeys Orders And Just Got Demoted And Might Even Be The Spy. I find her lack of patience with Poe to be pretty understandable.

How about telling someone? Sure, Poe kinda had his head up his butt. Or even say, "Hey, I'm a Vice Admiral. I did that cool thing you mentioned earlier. Trust that I have an actual plan, okay?" Or, "Until we know how they're tracking us in Hyperspace, I have to assume someone it a spy and I'm keeping my plans to myself."

And yeah, someone said upthread they could also have told Holdo about their idea. So I guess there's plenty of stupid to go around.

You know... I re-watched Brick the other day. So I know Rian Johnson knows how to make a solid movie. And like I said, I still liked this movie. But it could have been crafted better.

 

[Morrus]

How about telling someone? Sure, Poe kinda had his head up his butt. Or even say, "Hey, I'm a Vice Admiral. I did that cool thing you mentioned earlier. Trust that I have an actual plan, okay?" Or, "Until we know how they're tracking us in Hyperspace, I have to assume someone it a spy and I'm keeping my plans to myself."

And yeah, someone said upthread they could also have told Holdo about their idea. So I guess there's plenty of stupid to go around.

You know... I re-watched Brick the other day. So I know Rian Johnson knows how to make a solid movie. And like I said, I still liked this movie. But it could have been crafted better.

I think this really just comes down to a single line in the movie. I know that until I saw the backlash against this particular issue, when I left the movie my now impression was very much your "Until we know how they're tracking us in Hyperspace, I have to assume someone it a spy and I'm keeping my plans to myself" version. It wasn't till I washed it again that I realized she didn't say that explicitly; but it was still the impression I had come away with. I also assumed some people did know of her plans; it was just us (the audience) and Poe who didn't.