D&D 5E [Poll] Are any of the base classes too weak?

[abirdcall]

Until level 5, Monks have a +10 to movement. That's what the spell Longstrider gives. It's okay, but not exactly game breaking. Monks get +15 ft. for level 5-9, which is a tad better but hardly game changing.

Monks pretty much have to be in melee to attack. To get in and out of combat and make use of their mobility, they need to burn 1 Ki point and spend a bonus action each time they want to do it. This brings down their DPR considerably.

Honestly if you want a high priority target taken down, you are way better off attacking at range. A Samurai, Battlemaster, or Gloom Stalker archer with Sharpshooter is going to do more damage more reliably than a Monk can ever hope for.

I think you're doing it wrong.

One thing is that you're making the implication that simply stepping outside of melee with enemies means they cannot attack you. That's silly. It's very easy for enemy creatures to move around, many even have extra movement capabilities.

Spending a bonus action and a ki on disengage is usually not a good idea. Spending it on dodge however is good. If you are attacked you are at least using up the enemy's attacks. And if they don't attack you well that's fine too.

Spending a bonus action on an unarmed strike or flurry of blows gives the Monk many chances to stun. A stunned enemy cannot attack.

Another flaw with your reasoning is that you're assuming a white room with vanilla creatures. There are all sorts of weird situations with weird creatures that pop up in D&D. Monks get a lot of choice on how they want to move around and interact with their environment. Ranged attackers also have the issue of either attacking with disadvantage in melee or eating an OA to get out. Ranged attacking is only perfect in a white room.

 

[Minigiant]

favored Foe is also an exploration feature as it gives advantage on Perception and Survival for tracking the target if it escapes the battle.

It can also be casted out of combat of you want to track a target more easily.
I.E. for following.
You see the target, but it would get suspicious if you would follow it closely for more than a minute. So you cast that on it and give it a good head start before you start your track.

Not enough tables have rangers that use HM for tracking.

Many tables don't do tracking.

That's the issue. Ranger leans to a legacy of play that many people don't do or trivialize these days. Also the main images of rangers come from video gaming where rangers have their role linked to damage dealing and protected for combat balance.

So when you make fighters masters of all combat and skip the wilderness, rangers look very weak. Instead of slightly underpowered.

 

[Don Durito]

The ranger class abilities are situational but the paladin can't replicate a ranger...

...unless the idea of a ranger to the player is just a warrior with Stealth, Nature, and a green hood.

The issue with the ranger is different from the issue with the sorcerer.

The problem with ranger is that many want to play "Fighters in green hoods". The 5e ranger is closer to the skilled wilderness warrior who uses nature and arcana to best beasts, monsters, tribal raiders, and the supernatural beings of the wild.

Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer aren't the best but they aren't as terrible as people say. The issue is some table don't run wilderness encounters in depth and some people just want to play Fighters.

The main issue with rangers is their number of small spell known. If Hunters Mark and Cure Wounds were free, it fixes a lot.

Perhaps groups don't run wilderness travel because the Ranger seems designed to trivialise it and make it skippable?

"Ok Ranger. Your time to shine. Roll three navigation checks to see if you can find your way throuh the perilous forest"
"It's my favoured terrain. I can't get lost"
"Oh, okay then. But it's difficult going to find a path. Make roll to see if you can find an easy path - otherwise it will be a slow journey".
"Difficult terrain doesn't slow us".
"Oh, ok then. But since you are so busy finding the path, someone else will have to forage for food. Who else has Survival?"
"Actually I can do that at the same time".
"Oh, ok. I guess you arrive at the dungeon then. A big stone ruined tower looms..."

 

[Minigiant]

Perhaps groups don't run wilderness travel because the Ranger seems designed to trivialise it and make it skippable?

"Ok Ranger. Your time to shine. Roll three navigation checks to see if you can find your way throuh the perilous forest"
"It's my favoured terrain. I can't get lost"
"Oh, okay then. But it's difficult going to find a path. Make roll to see if you can find an easy path - otherwise it will be a slow journey".
"Difficult terrain doesn't slow us".
"Oh, ok then. But since you are so busy finding the path, someone else will have to forage for food. Who else has Survival?"
"Actually I can do that at the same time".
"Oh, ok. I guess you arrive at the dungeon then. A big stone ruined tower looms..."

True. Rangers are designed to trivialize basic wilderness travel.

But none of that are wilderness encounters. That's just wilderness travel and just the basics.

Again, if you don't run wilderness encounters in-depth nor frequently and just make it supply checking, then the ranger looks weak.

 

[Don Durito]

True. Rangers are designed to trivialize basic wilderness travel.

But none of that are wilderness encounters. That's just wilderness travel and just the basics.

Again, if you don't run wilderness encounters in-depth nor frequently and just make it supply checking, then the ranger looks weak.

Dude. This is the part where you give us examples in the interest of actual communication.

 

[jmartkdr2]

True. Rangers are designed to trivialize basic wilderness travel.

But none of that are wilderness encounters. That's just wilderness travel and just the basics.

Again, if you don't run wilderness encounters in-depth nor frequently and just make it supply checking, then the ranger looks weak.

What wilderness encounters are the ranger really helping in? It's not the terrain, and not the occasional monster or npc, so... example, please?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Perhaps groups don't run wilderness travel because the Ranger seems designed to trivialise it and make it skippable?

In a way, 'enabling,' like that is a legit contribution. Some spells/rituals are like that, too, or have been. It's not like casting water breathing or something puts the spotlight on the caster for a long time or is all dramatic or overtly powerful, but it can enable an encounter or a whole exploration scene or even adventure.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Fighter and Ranger, without question. Barbarian and Sorcerer, with some minor caveats.

That is, Fighter and Ranger are, from multiple not-too-difficult analysis perspectives, designed in ways that work well with neither the way the designers intended 5e to be played, nor how it is actually played. Frex, the numbers were meant to work out for even Champions once you hit about 8 actual combat encounters a day, as long as you had ~2.5 short rests/long rest, and Fighters were supposed to have a clear albeit flexible identity. Two things that....didn't quite work in practice, both of which have been recognized to one degree or another. And none of that jives with the actual practice of 0-2 (avg ~1.5) SR/LR and six-or-less encounters of any kind that is much more typical of 5e play experience. (Hence why we got that "class feature variants/upgrades" UA. They're using errata by another name to patch issues without ruffling feathers.)

Sorcerer and Barbarian are not in nearly so bad a position. Both have areas where they can be quite powerful, even uniquely so. The bigger problems are an extreme pigeonholing; they're close to one trick pony classes and subclasses don't really change that that is true, they just change which thing(s) it's true of. I would mind a lot less if (frex) Sorcerer subclasses granted on-theme spells, or if Barbarian subclasses offered more than microscopic/token noncombat utility (and if the Champion-equivalent didn't punish the player for using it as intended...)

So...yeah. Fighters and Rangers, to a lesser extent Barbarians and Sorcerers. Certain specific subclasses also could use a touch-up (most notably Four Elements Monk) but in terms of the overall class chassis, the listed four are where some TLC is either very or at least somewhat needed.

 

[Minigiant]

What wilderness encounters are the ranger really helping in? It's not the terrain, and not the occasional monster or npc, so... example, please?

Dude. This is the part where you give us examples in the interest of actual communication.

The DMG gives basic examples of wilderness hazards like ice and water. But in the worlds of D&D, you might see some sorts of supernatural hazards. Floating bodies of water. Wild animals acting strangely due to magical auras, diseases, or spells. The signs of monster lairs and where to go to avoid them. Knowledege of the local fey courts or elemental councils. Supernatural weather localized to same areas. Large packs of animals.

Rangers have 3 choices of Insight, Investigation, Insight, Nature, Medicine, Survival, terrain and enemy bonuses to them, and access to a few nature and arcane spells. Plenltyto help solve puzzles and curiosities a DM can throw out in the wilderness.

Imagine if a group of the native hooved animal was charging the parties way. Well someone recognize it to avoid being run over. And when it still comes their way, someone might realize that this isn't normal behavior for deergnuyaks. And if they still don't escape the mild stampede, someone might need to track down the fighter's sword that mysteriously disappeared. Possibly contacting a bird for a lead. Then someone has to convince the fey lord to give the sword back.

Or there could be sudden upside down blizzard that blows away and freezes supplies. Or a rope bridge is half tied and needs someone to get to the other side to fix it. Or some animals are interrupting your longrest or ruining your campsite. Or clearing leads to a field of flowers. Or one of many indifferent beast, plant, monster, and tribal encounters.

If you teleport fromtown to the dungeon then of course the ranger looks terrible. The real issue with the ranger is its spell known and few ranger nondruid or unique spells it gets.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The DMG gives basic examples of wilderness hazards like ice and water. But in the worlds of D&D, you might see some sorts of supernatural hazards. Floating bodies of water. Wild animals acting strangely due to magical auras, diseases, or spells. The signs of monster lairs and where to go to avoid them. Knowledege of the local fey courts or elemental councils. Supernatural weather localized to same areas. Large packs of animals.

Rangers have 3 choices of Insight, Investigation, Insight, Nature, Medicine, Survival, terrain and enemy bonuses to them, and access to a few nature and arcane spells. Plenltyto help solve puzzles and curiosities a DM can throw out in the wilderness.

Imagine if a group of the native hooved animal was charging the parties way. Well someone recognize it to avoid being run over. And when it still comes their way, someone might realize that this isn't normal behavior for deergnuyaks. And if they still don't escape the mild stampede, someone might need to track down the fighter's sword that mysteriously disappeared. Possibly contacting a bird for a lead. Then someone has to convince the fey lord to give the sword back.

Or there could be sudden upside down blizzard that blows away and freezes supplies. Or a rope bridge is half tied and needs someone to get to the other side to fix it. Or some animals are interrupting your longrest or ruining your campsite. Or clearing leads to a field of flowers. Or one of many indifferent beast, plant, monster, and tribal encounters.

If you teleport fromtown to the dungeon then of course the ranger looks terrible. The real issue with the ranger is its spell known and few ranger nondruid or unique spells it gets.

I get what you are saying, but at the same time, those challenges are not necessarily places for rangers to shine. Sure these are ''exploration challenges'' but most of them can be better countered by a druid, a cleric or a bard or even some rogue with specific expertises, or a wizard. In those challenges you cited, the ranger itself is not really more helpful than any other party member, to be honest.