D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Zardnaar]

Not as useful I think much narrower a sub function of the HS.

Different genre. The HS us nothing special, if you wanted a really gritty game using the 4E engine you could heal a single point if damage overnight.

Adding healing surges counters that goal. Healing surges are a replacement for 3.5 healing via wands and magic.

You're under the assumption that healing like that is a good idea. If you did a WW1 RPG you wouldn't want that type of healing full stop. Lose 30 go and have a condition tracker you might spend the next month or more in hospital.

Sucks in D&D terms but if you're using the engine to make WW1 Trench Warfare the RPG it makes sense.

 

[FrogReaver]

Fighters having more HS fed into that as well it may not be as efficient as if the Leader prompts it but. And since the conversation is going parallel

The fighter could use that extra ability to dig deep to do better and try harder on in skill use as part of the Skill Challenge guidelines in DMG2 (the best SC presentation IMO)

Yea - I actually liked the healing surge mechanic. Though I think 5e placing it in short rests tends to be better overall (thought 1 hour short rests are a bit long). It was a good way to model longevity vs in fight durability.

No idea what your second point really means.

I would actually have written fighter marking as an at will trigger power. Maybe it was in the book?

 

[Garthanos]

Different genre.

All is good then yup agree entirely they are a genre trope serving function even a second wind I would characterize differently than the effect of the HS in a different genre.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ok, so without much in it, why would I do this?
I'm not seeing you offer any reason to expect this to be anywhere near as good as just playing another game.
Yes, I could do it. I don't see any reason to want to.

I tinker and used the 4E engine in my home system for a bit.

It solves a lot of problems 3.5 had.

Before 5E landed I wrote my own D&D and ran it a few times. I've overhauled it since 5E landed.

Atm it's kind of an AD&D 3E using the 5E engine.

Main point is you could do a lot worse than stealing the 4E engine to duplicate whatever genre you wanted or whatever edition you wanted.

You could do an OSR inspired game but wouldn't be a clone.

 

[Teemu]

Sorry you had to watch your players use sucky powers even occasionally.

What else is he doing even occasionally other than using his 2 at will powers or one of his encounter or daily powers?

Charge, basic attack, bull rush, grab, distract, first aid, total defense, ready, delay, second wind, magic item powers...

Your framing was quite deceptive as you listed all these various things the 5e battlemaster could do, while the 4e fighter supposedly only has 6 powers to choose from. But that’s not the case at all.

 

[BryonD]

Before 5E landed I wrote my own D&D and ran it a few times. I've overhauled it since 5E landed.

So I flipped some between 5E and PF (not PF2E).
One of my players noted that he didn't care because it was "all just BryonD20". And, to him, this was a good thing.

Not that hard to see since 5E and PF do share a lot of DNA. I'm sure the game would look a lot different if we went to GURPS. But the point is, I get what you are saying here.

I just can't imagine why I would use the 4E engine as a foundation. No offense.

 

[FrogReaver]

Charge, basic attack, bull rush, grab, distract, first aid, total defense, ready, delay, second wind, magic item powers...

Your framing was quite deceptive as you listed all these various things the 5e battlemaster could do, while the 4e fighter supposedly only has 6 powers to choose from. But that’s not the case at all.

2nd wind is one that needs included.

Total defense - pretty bad
First aid = medicine in 5e (not worth mentioning for either game)
grab - should be mentioned
Basic attack - shouldn't be mentioned for either
Bull rush - you were nearly always better off using an actual power

I tended to leave out the situational powers that weren't worth mentioning because they aren't going to see play - or see it so rarely that they don't matter.

 

[Zardnaar]

So I flipped some between 5E and PF (not PF2E).
One of my players noted that he didn't care because it was "all just BryonD20". And, to him, this was a good thing.

Not that hard to see since 5E and PF do share a lot of DNA. I'm sure the game would look a lot different if we went to GURPS. But the point is, I get what you are saying here.

I just can't imagine why I would use the 4E engine as a foundation. No offense.

No offense, I replaced it with the 5E engine but added bits from 4E. Such as +2 to hit with flanking.

I also use fort/ref/will because 3 saves are easier than 6.

Probably overhaul it soon just going to focus on level 1-5 atm and try and get 8 functional classes.

 

[Teemu]

2nd wind is one that needs included.

Total defense - pretty bad
First aid = medicine in 5e (not worth mentioning for either game)
grab - should be mentioned
Basic attack - shouldn't be mentioned for either
Bull rush - you were nearly always better off using an actual power

I tended to leave out the situational powers that weren't worth mentioning because they aren't going to see play - or see it so rarely that they don't matter.

Yes, you left them out to frame the classes in favor of the 5e fighter. Still, the 3rd-level 4e fighter does indeed have access to more than 6 options. And I’ve seen them in play too.

If we want to talk about what the 4e fighter can pull off, let’s include things like stunning and dazing—something a 5e character needs magic to accomplish. The 5e fighter can’t push back an enemy a dozen feet into a clump of other foes and knock them all prone. They can’t temporarily gain resistance to damage, to completely shrug off weaker attacks. They can’t take on a focused stance that allows them to strike at nearby foes when those enemies simply start their turns. The list goes on.

 

[Garthanos]

No idea what your second point really means.

Picture ability to put extra effort into any protracted skill use ie add your CS die + con to a skill use.