D&D 5E "Fixing" assassinate.

[Gladius Legis]

You're highly overrating Advantage on attack, which only occurs in the first round, and only on creatures who have not taken their turn. You see unlike Assassin, Thief, Arcane Trickster and Swashbuckler's features aren't made redundant by flanking rules or initiative order.

I haven't played at a single table that uses the flanking rules. The consensus appears to be that they're broken and not at all worth using.

Even if your flanking rules were in effect, the Assassin's feature still means you wouldn't need to wait for a flank before getting advantage. Assassins are also the only Rogues that are rewarded for actually winning initiative; other Rogues actually prefer going later in the initiative order.

 

[S'mon]

I haven't played at a single table that uses the flanking rules. The consensus appears to be that they're broken and not at all worth using.

Even if your flanking rules were in effect, the Assassin's feature still means you wouldn't need to wait for a flank before getting advantage. Assassins are also the only Rogues that are rewarded for actually winning initiative; other Rogues actually prefer going later in the initiative order.

Yeah. If Feats are used, Assassins like Alertness.

 

[DND_Reborn]

FWIW, I would also like to add that you don't need flanking anyway or advantage. All that is required to use SA is any enemy of your target (usually your ally) is also within 5 feet of it.

 

[NotAYakk]

FWIW, I would also like to add that you don't need flanking anyway or advantage. All that is required to use SA is any enemy of your target (usually your ally) is also within 5 feet of it.

That doesn't grant advantage (just SA). And means that a rogue sometimes has to delay their attack until an ally moves.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think the Advantage part is a little overstated: as an assassin you mostly will try to get the drop on your enemies to trigger a surprise, that means you will try to be hidden, thus, already at advantage.

And with the the new variant class feature: Aim, gaining advantage for rogues will be even easier.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That doesn't grant advantage (just SA). And means that a rogue sometimes has to delay their attack until an ally moves.

True, but the argument was about flanking, which for the rogue is primarily about getting advantage to use SA. I was simply pointing out rogues don't need flanking rules to enable them to use SA, which is why the designers put that into SA since flanking is optional.

 

[abirdcall]

I think the Advantage part is a little overstated: as an assassin you mostly will try to get the drop on your enemies to trigger a surprise, that means you will try to be hidden, thus, already at advantage.

And with the the new variant class feature: Aim, gaining advantage for rogues will be even easier.

The thing is though that D&D is a team game.

IME surprise on the PC side happens very rarely.

This is something I caution new players who want to play Rogues (esp. Assassins). The game is not set up for the style of play they might be envisioning.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The thing is though that D&D is a team game.

IME surprise on the PC side happens very rarely.

This is something I caution new players who want to play Rogues (esp. Assassins). The game is not set up for the style of play they might be envisioning.

Good point. In our main game, the Fighter (samurai)/Rogue (assassin) is our scout and when there is a single guard, he really shines.

But, the rest of the party is usually 100 ft or more back... luckily our monk can get there quickly if needs be.

 

[Horwath]

We played it with a litle bit buffed version.

If your opponent is unaware of your presence for the 1st time in battle your first attack on them is critical.

That is an assassin can stumble into mid combat and if no one detected his presence, he can get one assassinate attack.

 

[Flamestrike]

I seem to be reading surprise differently to other people. The way I read the rules, if a target is surprised it lasts for the whole of the first round, it doesn't end when they have their turn.

Nope. Surprised creatures roll initative just like anyone else at the start of the encounter.

When their turn comes up on round 1, they simply cannot move or take any actions (they still get a turn on round one; they just cant do anything with it). After that turn ends, they can then take reactions.

Its not just semantics either; they might be hit by a spell on Round 1 (before their turn of inaction) that allows a saving throw at the end of their turn, or they may be subject to some other effect that happens on their turn. The fact they get a turn (they just cant do anything with it) is important for the working of a lot of rules.

Consider also a surprised Wizard. With a high enough Initiate check, they might be able to cast Shield during round 1 against an incoming attack that round.

To trigger Assassinate, an Assassin needs to Surprise his target (catch them unawares) AND roll a higher initiative score than his target (so he acts before the targets first turn on round one) because as soon as his potential target has his turn of doing nothing, he's recovered enough to be immune to Assassinate (and can take reactions).

Its why feats like Alert, a 3 level dip into Gloomstalker, weapons of Alertness, the UA Battlemaster manoeuvre 'Ambush' and other initiative boosting tricks are invaluable to an Assassin.