D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

What about them? Out of all the the options they are similar but still distinct.

Some classes in 5E have similar structures compared to 4E where all classes shared a similar structure.

similar structure but doing utterly different things within that structure

having 4 at will combatant cantrips
"Twin Strike", "Grab and Strike","Takedown","Press attack"

vs having class specific and build specific ones in 4e.

Balance doesn't matter, though, to sameyness. That's a separate discussion.

Balance in that sentence meant the equation factor you consider a given element important vs another element it wasn't talking about game balance or other things of that sort its actually much in agreement with what you said.

You aren't understanding. 2w+minor effect is a fact. You can look at that fact for 7 different powers and the minor effects makes them feel different to you. We can look at that same facts and the 2w+minor effects makes it feel samey to us. We're both looking at facts, but the outcome on how it feels is 100% subjective.

remember what you told me about big picture differences tadah now apply that to a tactical stage those abilities he was presenting were from different classes every one of the fighter ones were also marking and setting up combat challenge and everyone of the ranger ones were triggering an extra bolt of damage based on its class feature... and moving the ally and enemy around might even have feat and other distinctions.
Wholistic reading is for 4e too.

 

[Teemu]

I’d like to point out at this point that not all 4e classes share a similar structure. There are the traditional AEDU classes that get class features at level 1 and powers at regular levels; classes that don’t get daily attack powers; classes that don’t get encounter attack powers; classes that don’t get daily attack powers but do get daily resources at daily attack power levels; classes that receive additional class features at higher levels; classes with more daily attack power options; and more and combinations thereof.

Let’s put an end to another misinformed 4e meme.

 

[Maxperson]

remember what you told me about big picture differences tadah now apply that to a tactical stage those abilities he was presenting were from different classes every one of the fighter ones were also marking and setting up combat challenge and everyone of the ranger ones were triggering an extra bolt of damage based on its class feature... and moving the ally and enemy around might even have feat and other distinctions.
Wholistic reading is for 4e too.

Nobody has said otherwise. Something else you are missing is that degree matters. That's another subjective opinion. Take hot water. You can have two pots of hot water(4e and 5e) at different temperatures. One(4e) might be hot for you and you don't like it. The other(5e) might be hot, but not too hot for you and you do like it. Someone else doesn't get to point at the 5e pot and say, "See!!!! It's hot water just like the 4e pot, so it's the same!", implying that you are wrong for liking one, but not the other.

 

[Garthanos]

Nobody has said otherwise.

Looks like it when people are saying the powers are samey they are ignoring all other factors include rituals and the like.

Did you get how 5e extra attack combines with grappling and shove to create what would be 4 at-wills in 4e? Just realized I might not have explained where that came from.

 

[Maxperson]

Looks like it when people are saying the powers are samey they are ignoring all other factors include rituals and the like.

None of that matters, though. You don't get to decide what their criteria should be or which facts matter and which don't. You can only decide for you.

Did you get how 5e extra attack combines with grappling and shove to create what would be 4 at-wills in 4e? Just realized I might not have explained where that came from.

I understood. They are just different games with different rules. You can't really compare them like that. It doesn't work right if you do.

 

[Garthanos]

I understood. They are just different games with different rules. You can't really compare them like that. It doesn't work right if you do.

No they compare very directly in many many ways. The 5e characters with extra attack when they enter the heroic tier (above 4) each and every pick up 4 abilities just like you could have in a 4e character in fact they parallel actual at-wills from 4e very closely. It's a very clever method I kinda like it. It's a structural presentation difference though not a functional one.

I can bring back charge for combatants by adding an extra attack clause to the dash action and tadah.

 

[Teemu]

Excuse me. You don't get to call our impressions and beliefs mistaken or lacking truth. We are simply looking at different factual portions of the classes than you are. Just like you might focus on speed for a car and I might focus on suspension. A bouncy, fast car will be crappy for me, but good for you. A slow, smooth ride will be heaven for me, but you won't like it.

Trying to dismiss people who simply have different opinions based on different criteria as not based on factual truth is very short sighted and flat out wrong. Try to have a more open mind about things.

How do you find 4e powers (and rituals/classes/themes?) samey?

 

[Maxperson]

How do you find 4e powers (and rituals/classes/themes?) samey?

I find the generic class structure on when you get those powers(Some class exceptions don't change that) to be samey. I also find the do X damage dice + effect structure of many powers to make them feel samey to me. That doesn't mean I think every single power or class is samey, but the overall feel of them in the game is samey to me.

I don't think 4e was a horrible game, but it wasn't the game for me. When I realized that I would have to re-write the classes and how they worked in the game in order to make it as enjoyable as prior editions, I put 4e down and walked away. I don't mind making a lot of house rules, like I did for 1e-3e, but having to re-write the game was too much.

 

[Garthanos]

I don't mind making a lot of house rules, like I did for 1e-3e, but having to re-write the game was too much.

I have to rewrite every single monster out of the box in 5e and I have no idea how to balance the non-combat ability of casters and non-casters in 5e land and while it was not perfect in 4e its utterly thrown to the winds in a might as well not try fashion. I may well be better off stealing a few cool bits from 5e and give up hope on making it mine.

 

[Eric V]

Like how other people can have legitimate opinions that differ from theirs? That it has nothing to do with ignorance and that everyone's experiences and perspectives are unique?

Yep, agreed 100%.

cognitive dissonance =/= ignorance.