Capturing the "feel" of Tolkien.

[Doug McCrae]

The declinism is relatively easy to do using the same techniques as Tolkien, because it's a feature of the wider world and not the PCs or gameplay. The greater past is represented by artefacts, architecture, and a handful of immortal or long-lived beings like Elrond, Galadriel, and the balrog. Evil is in the ascendancy. Areas built by or once occupied by the forces of good have either fallen - Mines of Moria, Isengard, Minas Morgul - or are abandoned - the border marked by the Argonath.

The scene from the movie where they pass the Argonath was, for me, the most powerful and resonant.

 

[dave2008]

The declinism is relatively easy to do using the same techniques as Tolkien, because it's a feature of the wider world and not the PCs or gameplay. The greater past is represented by artefacts, architecture, and a handful of immortal or long-lived beings like Elrond, Galadriel, and the balrog. Evil is in the ascendancy. Areas built by or once occupied by the forces of good have either fallen - Isengard, Minas Morgul - or are abandoned - the border marked by the Argonath.

The scene from the movie where they pass the Argonath was, for me, the most powerful and resonant.

I think that it is hard to capture that "feel" in a one shot campaign. @Reynard mentioned getting something like this when he ran a multi-generational campaign. That was going to be my suggestion, but he/she has already done that. Though I was thinking you would need to do it over 3 generations probably.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I think that it is hard to capture that "feel" in a one shot campaign.

I don't agree with that for much the same reason you don't need to have read The Silmarillion to understand The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Eilathen]

I don't agree with that for much the same reason you don't need to have read The Silmarillion to understand The Lord of the Rings.

Depends heavily on your definition of "understand". If you have read The Silmarillion, you understand a lot more than without it, just by having read it.
For example in many of the songs or poems that are strewn through out tLotR there are references to things of the First and/or Second Age of ME.

If you just mean "you get a complete story to follow in tLotR", I kind of agree.

 

[dave2008]

I don't agree with that for much the same reason you don't need to have read The Silmarillion to understand The Lord of the Rings.

I'm not following your analogy, can you clarify?

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm not following your analogy, can you clarify?

We don't need to play out the mythic past, just see its effects in the present.

 

[dave2008]

We don't need to play out the mythic past, just see its effects in the present.

OK, that is not what I was talking about exactly.

I think that to get the sense of the growing "shadow" it helps to carry out a campaign through several generations. That why can see the subtle effects grow over time, creating a real sense of growing and inevitable dread. I think that is hard to get in just a one character campaign arc. I guess it can be done, but it cheapens it somewhat IMO. Of course I could be completely wrong, I've never done it myself, it was just what popped in my mind from the OP.

 

[pemerton]

That is the part of the TOR and AiME that I don't like and doesn't feel like Tolkein to me. When I read the books I don't get the sense of the Shadow affecting everyone. It definitely comes into play for some, but it never felt pervasive to me in the books. That mechanic just rubs me the wrong way.

I love Tor, but agree with what you are saying. We actually altered the rules to make shadow points easier to get rid of, if they accumulated just from travelling through areas like Mirkwood. We ruled gaining more permanent corruption requires committing evil deeds or succumbing to powerful dark artifacts.

The books are about heroic characters, and there is despair and anxiety, of course, but no sense that anybody was actually becoming corrupt. Frodo is an exception because he was carrying the ring. Boromir stumbled, but ultimately won out morally through his sacrifice. There is no indication that anyone else was pick up shadow points by stumbling across dragon gold or travelling through corrupted lands.

Interesting! This is making me feel happier with the Doom Pool approach, together iwth Emotional Stress, that I'm using in Cortex+ Heroic.

As far as the books, I found them very long-winded, meandering, and sometimes hard to follow.

I'm with you on the Lord of the Rings trilogy

And this is heresy!

(OK, I'll concede that there are bits that fall short of literary brilliance; I'd put the Old Forest sequence at the forefront there. And a lot of sentimentality. But stil . . . )

I guess when I think of the book and movies the major instances of despiar/ shadow infection involve the One Ring. That is essential to story of the Lord of the Rings, but not to playing a game in Middle Earth IMO.

There is despair beyond the effects of the ring (at least in any strict sense). Theoden nearly succubms. Denethor does. Sam comes close after the encounter with Shelob.

I think the principle "moral"/emotional axis for LotR is hope vs despair. This is also a recurring theme in the Silmarillion.

 

[dave2008]

There is despair beyond the effects of the ring (at least in any strict sense). Theoden nearly succubms. Denethor does. Sam comes close after the encounter with Shelob.

I think the principle "moral"/emotional axis for LotR is hope vs despair. This is also a recurring theme in the Silmarillion.

I didn't say there wasn't other areas of dread; however, particularly when you consider the main characters, the doom/shadow/despair revolves around the ring. From my perspective Saruman and Theoden (and possible Denethor) are being directly attacked, that is different than succumbing to an overall dread / shadow. Maybe it was there, I read the book 30+ years ago. I just don't remember feeling that way when I read it.

 

[pemerton]

From my perspective Saruman and Theoden (and possible Denethor) are being directly attacked, that is different than succumbing to an overall dread / shadow.

Fair enough. This isn't a distinction I'd draw myself.

The scene from the movie where they pass the Argonath was, for me, the most powerful and resonant.

Absolutely!

I'm not following your analogy, can you clarify?

We don't need to play out the mythic past, just see its effects in the present.

I think that to get the sense of the growing "shadow" it helps to carry out a campaign through several generations. That why can see the subtle effects grow over time, creating a real sense of growing and inevitable dread. I think that is hard to get in just a one character campaign arc.

I think there are devices that can be used to do this in a single campaign. Similar to the method that JRRT uses: the situation for the PCs starts out as "normal", and then shadow, the weight of history, etc is revealed and stepped upo through play.