D&D 5E Xanathar's Guide errata coming

[Essafah]

Something isn't a faulty premise just because you say so. Just like your comment about a vacuum not proving your point you actually need to give evidence backing up how I made a faulty premise.



The PHB flat out states spells are ranked in power by spell level. 5e never took class or character level into consideration in that ranking. The faulty premise is yours.

Also, you need to prove characters cannot move on every turn to take healing spirit healing for healing spirit to not be efficient healing because it's available every round to every character as already stated. It's a clear mechanic of the spell.

"Nuh uh we don't use it" illustrates you either aren't the tactically minded players you claim. Healing word is pretty useless outside of some emergency healing because of how little it actually heals and cure wounds costs an action instead of a bonus action. Both affect a single target. If you have something to demonstrate the advantage they have over healing spirit please demonstrate it. The same for prayer of healing or aura of vitality.

I easily gave examples of how healing spring was advantageous. Why are all your arguments that I'm wrong because you claim theory over practice (in a vacuum argument) and appeal to authority (we're tactical players) and similar arguments but no actual demonstrations of the advantages these other spells have?



Valor bard is better. Swords cannot use flourishes and also cast spells. The bard is better off with the shield for a resource free AC bonus and spending bardic inspiration on others with better capability is more effective than spending inspiration on oneself for those flourishes. It's a different analysis that I'd be happy to discuss in a different thread when I get more time.

A little bit of power creep happens but I disagree on the bard. Healing spirit is more than power creep. It's very superior to other healing spells. I suspect WotC over-estimated the movement cost at the time.

No. It is not a faulty premise because I say so. Your premise is faulty by the fact that the rules of the game give different classes different spells even if they all gain spell levels at different times. For proof of this I would recommend page 207 of the PHB.

Also, I never said a character could not move on everytime to jump into a healing spirit. In fact, I have not discussed movement in terms of healing spirit anywhere but since characters can move I will agree they can move into a healing spirit. I don't feel I should have to state the obvious. My point is that healing spirit doing 1d6 healing damage in combat is not that great and as a DM I would much rather have that running (which one hit can take away) vs. having a druid concentrate on spells that actually make a difference like conjure animals, spike growth, conjure woodland beings, and the many other substantial concentration spells druids get but if you consider that 1d6 in combat healing to be the ultimate tactical option you are entitled to your opinion.

I think the out of combat application of HS is awesome and I think this is a good thing for the game and I have stated why in previous posts.

I fully agree with you on the valor bard being better. Again, in terms of subclasses overall I think the subclasses in the PHB remain stronger than what is in Xanathar's and for the most part when a subclass in XG was introduced that was stronger than something in the PHB I think it was because that class in the PHB was recognized as having an option that widely regarded as inferior i.e. rangers, the champion fighter, etc.

 

[jasper]

Well, there goes all of the value from my copy....

so does mine. And it signed by the E.G.G. himself

 

[Essafah]

Subclasses like the sword bard, the zealot barbarian and the gloom stalker were introduced almost as a substitute for underwhelming PHB options like the valor bard, the berserker and both phb ranger options.
I’m happy we got them. It’s not a bad type of power creep in my view,

On the other hand, I don’t like that the game is now littered with sub-par trap options completely superseded by new material. But Wotc apparently can’t rebalance trap options (or OP options) because people would get upset that their books are now obsolete. In the digital era, I find this quite sad.

I agree. XG for the most part just shored up weak options in the PHB like the ones you mentioned. I think the options they introduced are interesting and competitive with the PHB but not broken. As far as updating their books they could easily do that and then change the covers to all new art. People would buy it but yeah some would complain about it being a money grab. Meanwhile people drop hundreds of dollars on video game systems and I don't know how much I have spent to start building my Tyranid army for 40k while on Covid-19 lockdown but hey that $50 for a new book that will have 3 good years of rules in it will break the bank

 

[jasper]

DM: "Sorry, Healing Spirit has been changed. It doesn't work that way any more."
Player: "Nope. I've got an original copy of Xanathar's. See?"
DM: "Drat. I guess you win."

DM. " What I mean is I have read the errata and applied. " Press button on dm chair sending Player to his doom!
Butler, " Um sir the chute has been redirected to the sewage tank. And it mostly full."
DM, "Rats. Throw down a roll of lifesavers to him. And we how long he can tread.."
Morrus," Remember Jasper keep it clean!"

 

[ad_hoc]

College of Swords Bard is far more powerful than College of Valor Bard.

Woah, let me stop you there.

Valor is the strongest Bard subclass.

It gets Shields which, for a full caster, is big.

It also gets an improvement on Bardic Inspiration rather than an alternate usage. The standard usage is far stronger than what Swords Bards get. Having a chance to add a die to a roll that is already made is huge. Valor adds to that by adding to AC after getting hit if needed.

Swords Bard probably fulfills the role of swinging swords in combat better than Valor however Valor is just stronger and much better at being a Bard.

 

[jasper]

The problem with power creep is that it forces players to buy the latest D&D book in order to keep up with their friends, who are using the new spells and abilities to build stronger, better characters. If you multiply this effect over multiple books (as in 3E, for example), then eventually you reach a point where no one can get into the game without investing tons of time and money into it first. Pretty much all previous editions have reached that point, and it required the release of a new edition to fix.

….

Nice way of viewing things. I have a differ one which I did back in 3E.
Core books or the door. This means PHB only.
Power Creep is the occasional problem but as long as the dm has a backbone. (Send jasper 3 easy payments of 99.99 for yours). I will not be a problem.
I am an Adventure League dm. I approve of the change but in my local shop healing spirit is no longer a problem. When the book first dropped, I saw a few builds with HS. After the shiny wore off, people quit using it. I think it was used twice in the dungeon of the mad mage. But the change was need. Interesting enough was I currently reading Xanathar's as my homework due to lockdown.

 

[Ashrym]

No. It is not a faulty premise because I say so. Your premise is faulty by the fact that the rules of the game give different classes different spells even if they all gain spell levels at different times. For proof of this I would recommend page 207 of the PHB.

Also, I never said a character could not move on everytime to jump into a healing spirit. In fact, I have not discussed movement in terms of healing spirit anywhere but since characters can move I will agree they can move into a healing spirit. I don't feel I should have to state the obvious. My point is that healing spirit doing 1d6 healing damage in combat is not that great and as a DM I would much rather have that running (which one hit can take away) vs. having a druid concentrate on spells that actually make a difference like conjure animals, spike growth, conjure woodland beings, and the many other substantial concentration spells druids get but if you consider that 1d6 in combat healing to be the ultimate tactical option you are entitled to your opinion.

I think the out of combat application of HS is awesome and I think this is a good thing for the game and I have stated why in previous posts.

I fully agree with you on the valor bard being better. Again, in terms of subclasses overall I think the subclasses in the PHB remain stronger than what is in Xanathar's and for the most part when a subclass in XG was introduced that was stronger than something in the PHB I think it was because that class in the PHB was recognized as having an option that widely regarded as inferior i.e. rangers, the champion fighter, etc.

Emphasis mine.

Page 207 of the PHB only demonstrates different classes have different spell lists. It's an assumption that those spells are meant to be more or less powerful based on class just they are different lists, and that assumption is the opposite of the PHB quote on spell levels preceding that list (that I quoted above for you).

There's no reason to make an assumption that's opposite of what the text states about spell levels.

If WotC wanted to buff rangers they would do that with errata, UA articles, published alternative subclasses, etc. They would not give them a spell that also benefits druids and bards.

It looks to me like you've jumped to a conclusion based on your perception of needed a ranger buff.

And yeah, valor bards are better ime. They aren't better on their own but for making the party more effective I would go that route.

Heading out of town now so I'll argue more later.

 

[Iry]

It wastes the slot every time casting is started and damage doesn't need healed by the end of the spell.

Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so. If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Finally some actual rebalancing of broken game elements? It was about time. Too bad the hexblade is apparently unaffected.

HS is the fireball of healing spells, which I’m fine with.

Hexblade is balanced. A Hexblade character isn’t more powerful than a Fiend character.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The only subclass in XGTE that is actually more powerful than the phb options is Gloomstalker, and a gloomstalker still isn’t outside the power levels of the PHB. There has been no power creep in 5e.