Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Revisits Psionics

The latest Unearthed Arcana from WotC revisits some psionic rules! “Shine with the power of the mind in this installment of Unearthed Arcana! Today we revisit several psi-themed options that we released in the past few months. Studying your feedback on those options, we’ve crafted this new collection of subclasses, spells, and feats, found in the PDF below.“...

The latest Unearthed Arcana from WotC revisits some psionic rules! “Shine with the power of the mind in this installment of Unearthed Arcana! Today we revisit several psi-themed options that we released in the past few months. Studying your feedback on those options, we’ve crafted this new collection of subclasses, spells, and feats, found in the PDF below.“

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lkj

Hero
Yeah... and therein lies the rub. Really finding and defining all the special things that psions do that aren't yet already in the game as spells. It'd be important to keep pointing that stuff out to them in the surveys-- the stuff that cannot be replicated by currently-available spells-- in order to really show why an entire class is necessary. If it were me, I'd also probably try and tie in a bunch of Dark Sun tropes as well that come out of the psion class, so that if/when they make DS they know what folks are looking for to directly tie the Psion to the campaign setting.

If they feel like most people seem okay with the psionic sorcerer as the primary psionic class, then they probably won't end up going any further. So make sure to let them know.


Agreed. It's obvious that they take the playtest feedback very seriously.

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
I really don't think so, most of those subclasses didn't say Theros to me, only a few did. It was clear from the article with the other Psion classes that Aberrant Mind was the Psion Sorcerer, and intended to be in the book with other Psion classes, and it wasn't even the first of these, the Psionic Artificer subclass that was more popular then the Alchemist subclass, yet never got published was the first (not counting Too Warlock of course which kind of got retconned into being Psionic lately).

It has an added icist to Psion, so that is a difference that is not meaningful to Psion. It's a mere florish.

As to the Aberrant Mind in Theros:
I really don't think so, most of those subclasses didn't say Theros to me, only a few did. It was clear from the article with the other Psion classes that Aberrant Mind was the Psion Sorcerer, and intended to be in the book with other Psion classes, and it wasn't even the first of these, the Psionic Artificer subclass that was more popular then the Alchemist subclass, yet never got published was the first (not counting Too Warlock of course which kind of got retconned into being Psionic lately).

It has an added icist to Psion, so that is a difference that is not meaningful to Psion. It's a mere florish.

There was a solid block that all felt like Magic cards in action: two are showing up in Theros, the Abarrent Mind has been retooled to feel less like it is tied to the seas of Theros, and I doubt we'll see much of the others.
 

Seriously. I could create the Wizard above and call it a Psion and you'd never know the difference.

Yeah, I would. Instantly. The abilities a Wizard in D&D has a hugely distinct from a Psionicist/Psion. Sorry this is just not a statement/claim that holds any water at all, and you've made no argument here, merely a baseless (and vaguely insulting "...you'd never...") claim. That's as much as I can engage with this. I will say even a Bard would be closer than a Wizard, under 5E rules. Considerably closer.

If the feedback was generally positive, Wizard's would have kept developing Mystic rules with updated UA to the community. Instead, they ditched it. The only logical conclusion here is that the negative outweighed the positive.

False logic. WotC have ditched stuff for which feedback was nearly universally positive before, and loads and loads of stuff which has had extremely positive feedback has come to absolutely nothing. That's not the only logical conclusion at all - in fact it's outright illogical - we know WotC don't operate on some simplistic "positive vs negative" system.

Do they? You told me not 100% of 1E fans like psionics as something all classes can access, but now you're speaking for all fans of 29 years worth of editions and saying they all 100% agree? I am asking you for clarification here - is that what you're saying or are you saying that's not really what all of them think?

Your post is full of what seems to me utter hypocrisy re: strawmen, and "polite"-ness, but here at least instead of attributing an opinion to me, or claiming motives for me (as you did several times earlier in the same post), you ask a question, which is more reasonable, so I'll respond to this point.

I'm specifically not saying that. I'm saying there's disagreement, but that's no larger than other disagreements.

You say it's ok to just throw out a psionic class altogether, because in the 29 years of Psionic classes, they haven't been sufficiently identical for your standards. I find this position completely untenable, because other classes have changed as much or more - two examples I would note were Bards and Fighters. Fighters have had a consistent theme, but the mechanics by which that is implemented are nearly unrecognisable from one edition to the next after 1E-2E. Bards have entirely different mechanics and sometimes signficantly different themes from edition to edition.

So what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if there's some disagreement - there's still a solid tradition, not a weak one as you claim (and personally for me, if there's any three-edition-in-a-row tradition of having a class, you shouldn't be chucking it, even if it's varied considerably).

There will even be some people from the 2E-4E era who don't want a Psionic class - albeit most of them will just not want Psionics period, or have a complex motivation (like they don't want any more classes in 5E, period, regardless of what they are). Hell, there are people from that era who want 1E-style. Just not many. And more to the point, plenty of people who started with 1E, don't want that style. It doesn't really matter when people started. It matters what style they want. And I don't buy that 23% of people want actual 1E-style Psionics. I don't buy that you even honestly believe that, either.

EDIT - Also your entire other post - you're the princess, and the name of the psionic class is the pea, frankly. You seem really upset with me that I don't think the pea is a big deal. The whole "expansion class" thing doesn't need to be addressed. It's a red herring.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
False logic. WotC have ditched stuff for which feedback was nearly universally positive before, and loads and loads of stuff which has had extremely positive feedback has come to absolutely nothing. That's not the only logical conclusion at all - in fact it's outright illogical - we know WotC don't operate on some simplistic "positive vs negative" system.

Their cutoff currently for publication is 70% approval. On what basis do you doubt this, specifically?
 


Their cutoff currently for publication is 70% approval. On what basis do you doubt this, specifically?

I don't believe businesses work that way, because they don't. They're not democracies. If they put out a badly balanced and clumsy UA, and it got 90% approval, they wouldn't just launch it, they'd rebalance, and perhaps massively change it, and launch that, maybe. Or they might just not do it. Loads of stuff that clearly very positively received, here and on the 5E reddit (and Beyond and GitP and so on) has just gone nowhere, and has not been published. Other stuff has been so modified and clearly NOT in response to feedback, that it might as well not even be called the same thing.

If you believe that for-profit businesses owned by HASBRO of all people, act as democracies in the way you're apparently describing (i.e. it's as simple as 70% public approval = publish), then well okay, but I don't that's a reasonable belief.

Further, wasn't the 70% figure quoted re: internal approval, not player approval? Or am I thinking of something else?
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't believe businesses work that way, because they don't. They're not democracies. If they put out a badly balanced and clumsy UA, and it got 90% approval, they wouldn't just launch it, they'd rebalance, and perhaps massively change it, and launch that, maybe. Or they might just not do it. Loads of stuff that clearly very positively received, here and on the 5E reddit (and Beyond and GitP and so on) has just gone nowhere, and has not been published. Other stuff has been so modified and clearly NOT in response to feedback, that it might as well not even be called the same thing.

If you believe that for-profit businesses owned by HASBRO of all people, act as democracies in the way you're apparently describing (i.e. it's as simple as 70% public approval = publish), then well okay, but I don't that's a reasonable belief.

Further, wasn't the 70% figure quoted re: internal approval, not player approval? Or am I thinking of something else?

Don't confuse the chatter on Reddit or here for the actual response: WotC has said that the forums are more wrong than right about how people actually respond to material. That's why they don't engage on forums anymore.

Per Crawford in the D&D Beyond video about the reception of the final Artificer UA playtest, the 70% is for the Survey responses posted after the UA are released, which get responses in the hundreds of thousands. Forum talk is not the feedback that they use to make decisions, because our conversation is a drop in the bucket next to the survey data. It is not that they have ignored positive feedback or ignored negative feedback: the positivity or negativity here or on Reddit do not necessarily correlate with what most enfranchised players tell WotC.

And capitalism is democracy through cash payments: WotC does want to sell as many books as possible, and get as many people playing as possible. The feedback loop of asking what people like and then selling that has worked, and there is no evidence they are doing anything else.
 

Yeah, I would. Instantly.

Here is my 10th level Wizard Psion. He's an Enchanter Telepath.

His spells Powers are: Dominate person Greater psionic puppet, Hold Monster Force grip, Modify Memory Mind wipe, Telekinesis Telekinesis, Confusion Psionic Confusion, Clairvoyance Psionic sight, Haste Accelerate, mage armor Intertial armor, Mind spike Mind spike, Suggestion Mind trick, Phantasmal force Implant fake reality, Detect thoughts Detect thoughts, Puppet Psionic puppet, Shield Psionic block, animate objects Move object

His cantrips Minor disciplines are: Mage Hand Move light object, Message Telepathy, Friends Psionic bond, Blade ward Personal matter manipulation.

His spellbook Psionic focus is a crystal. His Arcane focus Psionic amplifier is also an Orb Crystal.

For a feat he took spell sniper and selected Eldritch blast Psychic blast.

The above is achieved simply by refluffing. I didnt even use any of the Psionic spells or Feats in doing it.

You say it's ok to just throw out a psionic class altogether

No, I didnt.
 



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