D&D 5E The Fighter and Arcana

[Ashrym]

Well, of course the DM can always impose a check, but according to the text it isn't needed.

View attachment 121558
Those "requirements" are the ones I listed in my other post; i.e. adventures to discover what you need and obtain it, proficiency in a tool or arcana, money, and time.

Again, no checks required. DM can impose them, but that is not essential to the process or its result.

That particular check never states it's not needed either. You've arbitrarily decided that recalling lore doesn't need a check. That's fine but that doesn't mean it might not need that check.

The arcana is not important to the quest, the quest is what leads you to the information or recipe you need. If arcana provided it, there would be no need to adventure for it. After all, recalling lore is not necessarily the same as discovering the recipe.

How did you think the fighter understood what ingredients he was looking for, or randomly encountered if actively looking for items that might be used for crafting magic items? Or recognized what the recipe was in the first place?

The lack of an explicit check is not the same thing as no checks will be required. The quest portion is designed by the DM and that means expect relevant checks. The relevant checks for recalling lore with magic items is arcana.

That is crafting SPELL scrolls, a different thing obviously, so please stick to the topic.

Hello whut?

Lol, it's my topic so please reread the title of the thread and the first post that included crafting spell scrolls for EK's.

As per your own quote finding the lore is part of the adventure. "It is a long-term process that involves one or more adventures to track down the rare materials and the lore needed to create the item."

SHOW ME where, under crafting items, Arcana is noted as part of the final step or anywhere else other than an alternative to the required tool proficiency.

I don't need to show that. The final step is only a part of the process. That's what final step means. Show me quests that don't use checks relevant to the goals of the quest.

 

[gyor]

Fighters are kind of a vanilla class, flavor-wise: it doesn't do much on it's own, but it goes well with everything. You can add pretty much anything to a fighter and make it work, but if you add nothing they're kind of dull.

Whether this is a pro or a con is up to you.

Sorcerer is kind of like that too, 95% of the flavour is in the Sorcerer origin, only the fact that it's innate magic and that you can bend the way your spells work is from the Sorcerer class as opposed to it's subclasses. It's actually even more extreme then the fighter even, where I would say 25% of the flavour comes from the class instead of the subclass. Wizard, Druid, Bard is the opposite, 75% of the flavour comes from the class and only 25 comes from the subclass. The cleric is even more different, 90% of it's flavour comes not from class or subclass, but the clerics God/Religion, with the rest being an expression of that. To a lesser extent this is true of Paladins, although I'd say its 1 3rd God, 1 3rd Oath, and 1 3rd Paladin fluff.

 

[Iry]

Rune Knight is insanely good at this.

Fire and Storm give you Smith's Tools, double proficiency with any tool, advantage with Arcana checks, and prophecy rerolls if your DM calls for any other crafting checks. You also have the ready made flavor of crafting runes into your items

The only thing missing is double proficiency in Arcana, but humans and half-elves can take Prodigy with those bonus fighter feats.

 

[Ashrym]

Rune Knight is insanely good at this.

Fire and Storm give you Smith's Tools, double proficiency with any tool, advantage with Arcana checks, and prophecy rerolls if your DM calls for any other crafting checks. You also have the ready made flavor of crafting runes into your items

The only thing missing is double proficiency in Arcana, but humans and half-elves can take Prodigy with those bonus fighter feats.

A rune knight with fire being good at forging magic items seems applicable. I'm not sure double proficiency in arcana is necessary but it couldn't hurt and beats heavily investing in INT.

 

[BookBarbarian]

The only thing missing is double proficiency in Arcana, but humans and half-elves can take Prodigy with those bonus fighter feats.

Half-Orcs too

 

[Ashrym]

Half-Orcs too

Now you've put a half-orc crafting fighter in my head and I want to make the spear to end all spears.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That particular check never states it's not needed either. You've arbitrarily decided that recalling lore doesn't need a check. That's fine but that doesn't mean it might not need that check.

Boy, you AREN'T recalling lore, you are adventuring FOR IT! No where under crafting magic items is recalling lore mentioned. Oh, and in case you never realized it, you can make an Intelligence check for "lore" without proficiency in Arcana.

First, you need the formula for the magic item. You aren't recalling it, you have to find it. It is part of the adventure of crafting such items. Once you have the formula, you need the materials and will adventure for some (most? all? up to the DM... several examples are given) of those as well. You also need the time and money covering other expenses (other materials, tool, etc.). Finally, you need the tool proficiency for crafting the item OR proficiency in the Arcana skill. Notice in the text it says "or", not "and".

Once you have proficiency in the tool or Arcana, have the formula or "recipe", special materials, and money for extras, you spend the time and voilà! new magic item.

How did you think the fighter understood what ingredients he was looking for, or randomly encountered if actively looking for items that might be used for crafting magic items? Or recognized what the recipe was in the first place?

He adventured for that knowledge. Maybe he found a tome or plans with details on it? Maybe the DM had him travel to an ancient library and he had to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check to find it? I don't care, that is up to the DM. But, he certainly doesn't just know what he needs by having Arcana or making a check.

The lack of an explicit check is not the same thing as no checks will be required. The quest portion is designed by the DM and that means expect relevant checks. The relevant checks for recalling lore with magic items is arcana.

Ok, even if the DM rules checks are needed (note, Arcana proficiency is NOT, it is an Intelligence check and the DM can grant you your proficiency bonus if the PC has it, but the PC certainly is NOT required to...) duing the course of the adventure, when it comes to crafting the magic item and mixing the "stew" together, there is no check involved.

Just as there is not check involved if you spend the time and money making a normal sword or suit of leather armor. All that is required is the tool proficiency, time, and money. The DM can impose a check for success if they wish, of course they can, but it isn't part of the system.

Hello whut?

Lol, it's my topic so please reread the title of the thread and the first post that included crafting spell scrolls for EK's.

Hmm... well, we were discussing CRAFTING MAGIC ITEMS, not scribing spell scrolls. I don't care if it was part of your OP, it wasn't part of our discussion. If it makes you feel any better, of course you need Arcana for spells scrolls, it is written right there under the section on Scribing a Spell Scroll.

The section on crafting magic items only mentions proficiency in Arcana one time, as an option if you lack the necessary tool proficiency.

I don't need to show that. The final step is only a part of the process. That's what final step means. Show me quests that don't use checks relevant to the goals of the quest.

LOL of course you won't because you can't. You keep saying you need proficiency in Arcana for crafting magic items and you simply don't. You need tool proficiency (or Arcana) and even if your DM requires checks, they are Intelligence checks. I'm not saying having proficiency in Arcana won't help with those checks, but the simple fact is you don't NEED proficiency in Arcana.

My original points:

• you don't need proficiency in Arcana (you said you do, but as we both know that it is only needed in the case of scribing spell scrolls).
• you don't need to make a check (of any) kind to succeed in crafting the magic item provided you have the tool proficiency or Arcana proficiency, the formula, special materials, time, and money. The DM can add one, but it isn't part of the system as presented.

Arcana is only necessary in the case of spell scrolls. Period.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think they're the bacon class, because everything is better with bacon.

But bacon is also pretty great on its own.

So is vanilla

 

[Guest 6801328]

So is vanilla

Vanilla with bacon. Mmmmmm.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Vanilla with bacon. Mmmmmm.

And a maple syrup drizzle