D&D 5E The Fighter and Arcana

[Umbran]

Those "requirements" are the ones I listed in my other post; i.e. adventures to discover what you need and obtain it, proficiency in a tool or arcana, money, and time.

Again, no checks required.

(Emphasis mine.) So, you figure an adventure to get X and Y will not contain checks to recognize X and Y? I mean, failure is supposed to be an option on an adventure, right? And players are expected to actually think about how they approach adventures for their own success, right? We aren't just having them walk int eh door, and hand them the thing they want tied up in a bow...

How do you know what you have is a working recipe for a magic item? How do you know it is a recipe for the item you want? How does your unskilled fighter come away with confidence that he's getting a +1 sword, and not cinnamon raisin scones, or a Dagger of Self Stabbing? Same for ingredients - how do you know what you've got in your hand is powdered catoblepas horn, and not cornstarch?

By all means, enter into the making of magic items without the skill - but do note that you are apt to come out with fewer +1 swords, and more "sword stuck into what appears to be concreted oatmeal" than your more fully skilled colleagues.

 

[Umbran]

So is vanilla

Dangit! Now I really want a vanilla milk shake.

 

[DND_Reborn]

(Emphasis mine.) So, you figure an adventure to get X and Y will not contain checks to recognize X and Y? I mean, failure is supposed to be an option on an adventure, right? And players are expected to actually think about how they approach adventures for their own success, right? We aren't just having them walk int eh door, and hand them the thing they want tied up in a bow...

How do you know what you have is a working recipe for a magic item? How do you know it is a recipe for the item you want? How does your unskilled fighter come away with confidence that he's getting a +1 sword, and not cinnamon raisin scones, or a Dagger of Self Stabbing? Same for ingredients - how do you know what you've got in your hand is powdered catoblepas horn, and not cornstarch?

By all means, enter into the making of magic items without the skill - but do note that you are apt to come out with fewer +1 swords, and more "sword stuck into what appears to be concreted oatmeal" than your more fully skilled colleagues.

LOL doesn't change a thing. The simple fact is, as I have already shown, you do not need proficiency in Arcana to craft magic items using the system presented in XGtE under Crafting Magic Items.

How the DM wants to handle the specifics during the adventure is up to them. Will you have to make some Intelligence checks along the way? Probably. I would assume so. Do you need proficiency in Arcana to make them? Nope. Will having proficiency in Arcana help you in those checks? Probably. Again, I would assume so.

But, the claim was you need proficiency in Arcana when crafting magic items. You do not. At all. Ever.

 

[SkidAce]

But, the claim was you need proficiency in Arcana when crafting magic items. You do not. At all. Ever.

I agree with this part, a dwarven smith might make a magical hammer with no Arcana skill at all.

Its because he is a talented smith and knows the formula.

 

[jmartkdr2]

And a maple syrup drizzle

Now I'm hungry.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I agree with this part, a dwarven smith might make a magical hammer with no Arcana skill at all.

Its because he is a talented smith and knows the formula.

That doesn't feel right to me, even if my feeling isn't at all supported by 5e rules.

An experienced Dwarven smith who "knows the formula" would, at least by my definition, have some Arcana skill. By learning the formula he's learned some Arcana.

5e just doesn't have the granularity to model that.

 

[SkidAce]

That doesn't feel right to me, even if my feeling isn't at all supported by 5e rules.

An experienced Dwarven smith who "knows the formula" would, at least by my definition, have some Arcana skill. By learning the formula he's learned some Arcana.

5e just doesn't have the granularity to model that.

what if its not arcana, what if its just heat hammer and add trollblood?

I mean I hear yah, I might/probably would give him Arcana also, but mechanically he would not need it.

 

[Ashrym]

I agree with this part, a dwarven smith might make a magical hammer with no Arcana skill at all.

Its because he is a talented smith and knows the formula.

He can according to the rules. The arcana checks come into play in acquiring the formula and questing for the ingredients before the crafting part. The arcana proficiency is required if the same dwarf isn't a leather worker and is assisting the leather working in crafting magical leather armor.

If the dwarven smith already knows the formula for some reason and someone else brings him the ingredients then he can make that magic hammer without arcana. That doesn't mean arcana doesn't come into play during the expected quest or related to the formula and ingredients. The basic assumption is creating an item involves a quest.

That doesn't feel right to me, even if my feeling isn't at all supported by 5e rules.

An experienced Dwarven smith who "knows the formula" would, at least by my definition, have some Arcana skill. By learning the formula he's learned some Arcana.

5e just doesn't have the granularity to model that.

Proficiency isn't required to make a check so your example can still include some arcana knowledge without proficiency. Proficiency is required for scribing scrolls or as the alternative to tools. The Dwarven smith is capable of recalling arcana lore regardless of proficiency but with a lower bonus (INT mod).

Now I'm going to cook me up some Canadian maple bacon.

 

[Umbran]

what if its not arcana, what if its just heat hammer and add trollblood?

If it is that simple... trolls are hunted into extinction, and everyone has a +1 hammer. The whole "make magic during downtime" has to be consistent with the rest of the setting.

 

[jmartkdr2]

That doesn't feel right to me, even if my feeling isn't at all supported by 5e rules.

An experienced Dwarven smith who "knows the formula" would, at least by my definition, have some Arcana skill. By learning the formula he's learned some Arcana.

5e just doesn't have the granularity to model that.

I think it's like the difference between following a recipe and understanding how to write a recipe.

Only one of those is required to bake a pie.