D&D 5E 5e "Anyspell," Would You Allow the Enclosed Spell?

[jaelis]

Inanity what is your wizard doing with their reaction so often? I mean, shield is good and all but you're really not supposed be be getting attacked every turn.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

EDIT: In almost every case casting wish wth your ONE 9th level spell slot would be better than Anyspell. Yes you can choose ANOTHER ninth level spell in place of wish and use Anyspell for a level or two for utility but eventualy youll want wish...

It's actually the opposite of that. In almost every casting case, your homebrew Anyspell is superior to Wish. Let me explain why.

Wish always uses a up a ninth level spell slot. Assume for a second that you have a need to cast a spell lower than 8th level (7th level, etc.).

In pretty much every such case, Anyspell is superior to wish because you aren't using a 9th level slot. I could keep going (for example, you get wish as a second level spell, which tends to occur before you can access ninth level spells), but you get the idea.

As a general concept, if I am using the phrase "superior to wish" for a second level spell, I tend to think I did something wrong.

 

[Inanity]

No, I would not allow this in my game. Lots of reasons, many of which you don't want to hear or think are invalid. Some that I haven't seen you dismiss, hand wave or shout down include;

• Changes the concept of how and why a wizard has mastered the arcane.
• Makes spell preparation nearly meaningless.
• Practically obsoletes all other casters.
• Steals the fun from other classes.
• Does not fix something that is broken.

I dont think it does any of those things and would lke to hear your reasons for the above (except maybe "doesnt fix the broken" as that is not a desiderata of mine). As a note, I intended this spell to be available to any class and didnt change that in the description. Also, I am thinking about making this change:
(i) the spell cast must be one you can learn or prepare (where "can" is (class) level dependent word).

As a note: there is precedence for wizards to learn spells like this (the shadow conjuration line of spells, spells like arcane matrix,allspell, anyspell these were all spells a wizard COULD, of the appropriate string of prestige cheese, get . WISH is a precedent LIMTED WISH; so your point (i) above is somewhat shaky.

 

[Inanity]

It's actually the opposite of that. In almost every casting case, your homebrew Anyspell is superior to Wish. Let me explain why.

Wish always uses a up a ninth level spell slot. Assume for a second that you have a need to cast a spell lower than 8th level (7th level, etc.).

In pretty much every such case, Anyspell is superior to wish because you aren't using a 9th level slot. I could keep going (for example, you get wish as a second level spell, which tends to occur before you can access ninth level spells), but you get the idea.

As a general concept, if I am using the phrase "superior to wish" for a second level spell, I tend to think I did something wrong.

I meant when it comes to USING you NNTH level slot... of course anyspell is good have have prepared!

EDIT: I wasnt saying wish is BETTER OVERALL than anyspell; but that cast as a ninth level spell , wish is superior... Anyspell is SURELY more versatile, like counterspelll...

 

[Fanaelialae]

Thank you all for your responses. I dont know I tend to think that the reaction cost is steeeep... Using this spell would be a suboptimal choice in combat. in most cases. But the discussion above has lead me to change the spell in various ways....

It's not steep outside combat (and even in combat it would only be steep if you need to use shield or counter spell that round - which certainly isn't every round).

Prepare all of your combat spells as you normally would. Then prepare Anyspell for your miscellaneous utility needs. Utility spells tend to be specialized. They're very useful for the situations they're designed for but useless outside that. This effectively removes that balance by giving you access to all of those situational spells for a very low cost (one level slot higher). Particularly at higher levels, that slot cost is virtually negligible but the utility value remains astronomical.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

EDIT: with a wish you can emulate any 8th level or lower spell as an action (even if that spell takes 10 mins to cast). Anyspell does no such thing...

It's extremely close to that. In most situations, it will be identical. And the whole "reaction" thing is just outright wrong. That's not how the rules work. You can't just charge a reaction as a cost for something. A reaction must be a reaction.

You literally AREN'T ALLOWED to make it use a reaction, when it's not a reaction. It must be an Action or Bonus Action to work the way you've described. And as a Bonus Action it would be even more OP.

I meant when it comes to USING you NNTH level slot... of course anyspell is good have have prepared!

Doesn't seem like you understand the problem. Anyspell is ridiculously good because it's needlessly lacking in limitations. The whole point of Wish is that you can cast anything, absolutely anything. And the vast majority of spells you're going to want to cast will be on your list, as a Wizard particularly. So unless the spell has a long casting time (which is what, a handful of spells? Ten? Out of all spells) and expensive components, it's objectively better to use Anyspell for the job than Wish. Objectively better than Wish. Even if that's true in some cases, that's berserk.

 

[Inanity]

It's not steep outside combat (and even in combat it would only be steep if you need to use shield or counter spell that round - which certainly isn't every round).

Prepare all of your combat spells as you normally would. Then prepare Anyspell for your miscellaneous utility needs. Utility spells tend to be specialized. They're very useful for the situations they're designed for but useless outside that. This effectively removes that balance by giving you access to all of those situational spells for a very low cost (one level slot higher). Particularly at higher levels, that slot cost is virtually negligible but the utility value remains astronomical.

Yeah... Which I dont think anything game breaking or overpowered occurs... outside of combat I have found players will find a way (anyspell or not; anyspell could very well expedite things in a desirable way, and not the opposite, idk really; I do want to run it though, havent yet)

 

[Inanity]

It's extremely close to that. In most situations, it will be identical. And the whole "reaction" thing is just outright wrong. That's not how the rules work. You can't just charge a reaction as a cost for something. A reaction must be a reaction.

You literally AREN'T ALLOWED to make it use a reaction, when it's not a reaction. It must be an Action or Bonus Action to work the way you've described. And as a Bonus Action it would be even more OP.



Doesn't seem like you understand the problem. Anyspell is ridiculously good because it's needlessly lacking in limitations. The whole point of Wish is that you can cast anything, absolutely anything. And the vast majority of spells you're going to want to cast will be on your list, as a Wizard particularly. So unless the spell has a long casting time (which is what, a handful of spells? Ten? Out of all spells) and expensive components, it's objectively better to use Anyspell for the job than Wish. Objectively better than Wish. Even if that's true in some cases, that's berserk.

You may misunderstand how te spell woks... you still must pay the component and action cost of the spell you cast using anyspell....
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[jmartkdr2]

You are, of course, free to run your game as you please, but I think you've seen universal agreement against the idea of allowing this spell - if that doesn't tell you that it's not good, then I don't know what evidence you would accept.

 

[Inanity]

It's extremely close to that. In most situations, it will be identical. And the whole "reaction" thing is just outright wrong. That's not how the rules work. You can't just charge a reaction as a cost for something. A reaction must be a reaction.

You literally AREN'T ALLOWED to make it use a reaction, when it's not a reaction. It must be an Action or Bonus Action to work the way you've described. And as a Bonus Action it would be even more OP.

Wait a minute reactions spells DO SPECIFY THE TRIGGER in the spell.. that is alll I meant... create any trigger you want... My point is that the trigger CAN be there (and that was an oversight on my part when I wrote it the first time)... Making it trigger at the end of a creatures turn after using an object to say do1 point of damage to yourself, etc... one can SPECIFY a trigger!!!!
Really the trigger issue is a red herring at best...