D&D 5E How weak is Athlete Feat?

[pming]

Hiya!

(Yes, I know all sorts of weak word plays to make on this one.)

Ehem.

In addition to the +1 Str or Dex, the Feat "Athlete" offers this:

• When you are prone, standing up uses only 5 feet of your movement.
• Climbing doesn’t cost you extra movement.
• You can make a running long jump or a running high jump after moving only 5 feet on foot, rather than 10 feet.

All useful stuff, but compare to other Feats, how useful would you find this? Reflecting back to my own experiences, and imagining how much difference Athlete would have made:

• There have been a few times when the extra 10' of movement after standing up from prone would have helped. Not many.
• Likewise, there have been a handful of times when climbing speed really mattered, like getting shot at with arrows while on a ladder, or climbing a long way trying to join a fight in progress.
• Can't actually recall any circumstances when it would have been hugely beneficial to only need 5 feet for a running jump. I guess I could imagine a situation where I'm on a square next to something I want to jump, and by not having to back up 5' before running, I would save myself 10' overall. Yay.

So all very situationally useful, but unlikely to come up with in any one combat. Or really session. Or maybe even adventure. Although I guess it probably varies depending on your DM style.

If it weren't for the +1 Str/Dex I wouldn't really be considering it at all, but thematically it works with a character I'm thinking about. (The UA "Hero" Oath Paladin.)

Thoughts?

This isn't so much a problem with the Feat, so much as it seems to be a problem with the Player expecting the DM to place "situations" where the PC's chosen Feat can come into play....in stead of the Player making choices that let the character make use of it if it becomes necessary.

I don't want to drone on and on, so I'll be brief.

There are two types of Players. One type passively Reacts to the world. Another type actively Engages the world.

IF we used feats, and I was a Player, and I chose that feat...I'd try and stick near walls, edges of pits, on stairways, on rooftops, etc. You never know when being able to climb at full rate, or jump with only a 5' start will give you an advantage (or allow a quick escape!).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[bedir than]

It seems like the "Athlete" Feat should give proficiency in Athletics or double-proficiency if they already have it

 

[Guest 6801328]

Hiya!



This isn't so much a problem with the Feat, so much as it seems to be a problem with the Player expecting the DM to place "situations" where the PC's chosen Feat can come into play....in stead of the Player making choices that let the character make use of it if it becomes necessary.

I don't want to drone on and on, so I'll be brief.

There are two types of Players. One type passively Reacts to the world. Another type actively Engages the world.

IF we used feats, and I was a Player, and I chose that feat...I'd try and stick near walls, edges of pits, on stairways, on rooftops, etc. You never know when being able to climb at full rate, or jump with only a 5' start will give you an advantage (or allow a quick escape!).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

First, I just have to point out that your phrasing (and maybe your intent?) is really patronizing. I'm pretty sure you just called me the type of player who passively reacts to the world. Um....thanks.

That aside, I find the advice a little glib. On the one hand, sure, that makes sense. It seems, on the surface, like saying that if you're really good at shoving you should position yourself where you can push enemies off cliffs. But if you pick apart these specific abilities, and the rules, I think it's harder to come up with realistic/common scenarios where this applies with this particular fear.

For example, the 5' of movement to leap rule: so....rather than standing 10' from a pit I might have to jump over in the middle of combat, I only have to position myself 5' away in case I decide to jump over it? Doesn't that risk getting yourself shoved in? I can think of some edge cases where it could be used to escape combat slightly more effectively, but not really in a practical sense.

Climbing...ok, if the combat happens to be near a ladder, maybe you can make some tactical choices that somebody else wouldn't have. But climbing speed does not mean climbing ability. You can't just scoot up a smooth wall any easier than anybody else; it's just that if you can climb something, you climb more per round. (Maybe you knew that; not sure, given the "stick near walls" suggestion.)

And the standing from prone....the one really useful thing I can think of is for charging (or running away from) archers, if it will take multiple rounds of movement. You could drop prone at the end of your movement, let them shoot at you with disadvantage, then jump up and run again. That situation may occur once every few sessions, but even then would be an example what you describe as the DM "placing situations."* But other than that, why would you voluntarily drop prone? Being prone is usually the result of an enemy knocking you down (at least in my experience). So it's hard to use proactively.

*I suppose I could "make my own situation" by running away from the archers, then charging them. Peter Falk yelling "Serpentine! Serpentine!" to Alan Arkin in The In-Laws comes to mind.

 

[Undrave]

I took it for my Gnome Monk, but mostly because I wanted a +1 to my odd DEX and it was a rolled stats game and I had gotten some ridiculous stats and I voluntarily took a slightly subpar feat for level 4.

Otherwise I wouldn't have looked at it.

As an aside, dropping prone is basically a free action so it's a useful tool if you're being peppered by arrows. Move, then drop prone, and on the next turn you can get back up and keep moving forward with little penalty.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Ok, here's one: if you're a monk (the character I'm making is not) you could fight next to a ladder. Attack an enemy, spend a point of Ki to disengage, then run your full movement (40+ feet) up the ladder. Your enemy will presumably move at half speed, so would not be able to reach you. On your turn, Slow Fall back down to him, punch him, and flee up the ladder. Repeat until out of Ki.

 

[Guest 6801328]

As an aside, dropping prone is basically a free action so it's a useful tool if you're being peppered by arrows. Move, then drop prone, and on the next turn you can get back up and keep moving forward with little penalty.

Jinx!

 

[Shiroiken]

It's not just Athlete. I've take several of these underused feats, combined two together (giving the option between the +1 if both have it), and they STILL never get chosen. The problem is that there are far more feats that are either: universally useful, character defining, or super powerful. Given that the average character will have 1 feat (maybe 2 if high level game or a variant human), this makes the choice to take the odd feats unlikely.

 

[FrogReaver]

Athlete is fine if you are str based and have an odd str. Not something you will do with point buy. Would require a rolling method and one where other useful stats aren't odd. And then even when those criteria are met (fairly rare) it's still competing with feats like heavy armor master or potentially elven accuracy (if dex).

 

[rgoodbb]

Change the name to Parkour and add a note about DM's might give you a little latitude in stunts and I think more people would take it.

 

[Iry]

Imagine taking Athlete on a Centaur, then running up walls at full speed while arguing that you only need to use your hooves because everyone else uses four limbs to climb, and you have six.

"Charging the enemy so they can't readily get steadily back up while you stomp on them deadily."