D&D 5E How weak is Athlete Feat?

[TwoSix]

Athlete feat can't be beat. The movement bonuses are a real treat. Although a PC that's taken it I've yet to meet.

 

[Fenris-77]

Athlete feat can't be beat. The movement bonuses are a real treat. Although a PC that's taken it I've yet to meet.

Good lord. That's enough with the rhymes now, I mean it.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

First, I just have to point out that your phrasing (and maybe your intent?) is really patronizing. I'm pretty sure you just called me the type of player who passively reacts to the world. Um....thanks.

Don't take it the wrong way. Being passive isn't "bad", I mean, I'm a pretty passive guy in real life; I dislike confrontation and am more than happy to just sit there in the corner, sipping my drink at a party as I watch everyone else do all that 'party stuff'. If someone asks me for a game of beer pong...sure! But I'm not the one to suggest it first. Just saying...passive doesn't mean "weak/bad/wrong"...just like active doesn't mean "strong/good/correct".

That aside, I find the advice a little glib. On the one hand, sure, that makes sense. It seems, on the surface, like saying that if you're really good at shoving you should position yourself where you can push enemies off cliffs. But if you pick apart these specific abilities, and the rules, I think it's harder to come up with realistic/common scenarios where this applies with this particular fear.

For example, the 5' of movement to leap rule: so....rather than standing 10' from a pit I might have to jump over in the middle of combat, I only have to position myself 5' away in case I decide to jump over it? Doesn't that risk getting yourself shoved in? I can think of some edge cases where it could be used to escape combat slightly more effectively, but not really in a practical sense.

I suppose that could be true. But if I was DM'ing and your PC was at risk of getting shoved into the pit, I'd probably ask for a Dex save. If you then brought up "I have the Athletic Feat, does that help?", I'd probably give you +2 or maybe even Advantage. So, while initially it may be a bit of a gamble fighting at the edge of a pit/cliff, you still have the "advantage" of having the Feat....effectively, betting that you are better then your opponent and being able to utilize such a dangerous fighting local.

Climbing...ok, if the combat happens to be near a ladder, maybe you can make some tactical choices that somebody else wouldn't have. But climbing speed does not mean climbing ability. You can't just scoot up a smooth wall any easier than anybody else; it's just that if you can climb something, you climb more per round. (Maybe you knew that; not sure, given the "stick near walls" suggestion.)

Yes, I was aware. But...the Athletic PC still has that 'little extra'. This might just be a case of "I don't have to outrun the ooze-monster...I just have to outrun you..."

And the standing from prone....the one really useful thing I can think of is for charging (or running away from) archers, if it will take multiple rounds of movement. You could drop prone at the end of your movement, let them shoot at you with disadvantage, then jump up and run again. That situation may occur once every few sessions, but even then would be an example what you describe as the DM "placing situations."* But other than that, why would you voluntarily drop prone? Being prone is usually the result of an enemy knocking you down (at least in my experience). So it's hard to use proactively.

And here we get into "DM Play Style". Y'see, in my game, that would never happen that way. Combat and movement in it is not done in "stop motion". A PC would never "drop prone at the end" then the bad guy "shoots for his action"...then you "jump up and run again". That just makes no logical sense whatsoever. Which is bad from the Feat's perspective in this case. However, a Feat is supposed to be a good thing. It's supposed to be a little 'extra' that the PC can do or do better than others. So, at least in my game, I might let the PC use his Athletics as if he was using Acrobatics...especially if the terrain had things the PC could use. Think of it like the fantasy D&D version of "Parkour". If the PC also actually had the Skill Proficiency of Acrobatics, I'd be inclined to let him use Acrobatics with Advantage in some way (the PC leaping, side-stepping, swinging, vaulting, etc over, under and around boulders, bushes, trees, etc).

*I suppose I could "make my own situation" by running away from the archers, then charging them. Peter Falk yelling "Serpentine! Serpentine!" to Alan Arkin in The In-Laws comes to mind.

Sounds good! Go for it!

PS: Sorry if I sounded "crotchety" in my original post. It wasn't my intent.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Guest 6801328]

Don't take it the wrong way. Being passive isn't "bad", I mean, I'm a pretty passive guy in real life; I dislike confrontation and am more than happy to just sit there in the corner, sipping my drink at a party as I watch everyone else do all that 'party stuff'. If someone asks me for a game of beer pong...sure! But I'm not the one to suggest it first. Just saying...passive doesn't mean "weak/bad/wrong"...just like active doesn't mean "strong/good/correct".

Ok, fair enough. Sorry for being prickly.

I suppose that could be true. But if I was DM'ing and your PC was at risk of getting shoved into the pit, I'd probably ask for a Dex save. If you then brought up "I have the Athletic Feat, does that help?", I'd probably give you +2 or maybe even Advantage. So, while initially it may be a bit of a gamble fighting at the edge of a pit/cliff, you still have the "advantage" of having the Feat....effectively, betting that you are better then your opponent and being able to utilize such a dangerous fighting local.

Y'see, in my game, that would never happen that way. Combat and movement in it is not done in "stop motion". A PC would never "drop prone at the end" then the bad guy "shoots for his action"...then you "jump up and run again". That just makes no logical sense whatsoever. Which is bad from the Feat's perspective in this case. However, a Feat is supposed to be a good thing. It's supposed to be a little 'extra' that the PC can do or do better than others. So, at least in my game, I might let the PC use his Athletics as if he was using Acrobatics...especially if the terrain had things the PC could use. Think of it like the fantasy D&D version of "Parkour". If the PC also actually had the Skill Proficiency of Acrobatics, I'd be inclined to let him use Acrobatics with Advantage in some way (the PC leaping, side-stepping, swinging, vaulting, etc over, under and around boulders, bushes, trees, etc).

I agree with what you're saying here, and that's really houseruling, not RAW. Clearly at your table Athlete would be more effective than written, and maybe the best thing to do is work with a DM and say, "Hey, this feat really fits my concept, but it kinda sucks. Work with me here..."

The first time I read "Oath of Heroism" in UA I thought, "OMG, it's Dirk the Daring, from Dragon's Lair!" So that's what I'm trying to build. I have no idea if/when I'm going to get to play this character (honestly I'd rather wait until that subclass becomes "official") but if I ever get to do it I'd take all Feats instead of ASIs, and even then I'd have to make some choices between:
Athlete
Lucky
Shield Master
Mobile
Alert
Resilient: Dex
Prodigy (Athletics)

 

[Guest 6801328]

Good lord. That's enough with the rhymes now, I mean it.

Anybody want a cashew?





Wait...that's not right.

 

[Fenris-77]

Anybody want a cashew?

Wait...that's not right.

Almond. You were close though.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's pretty meh. The climbing at full speed is kinda cool, I guess? I think it should include expertise in the athletics skill.

I’m surprised by this.

But then it’s a popular feat in my group, in large part because we use terrain quite a lot, so climbing speed is often relevant to combat, as is not using half your movement to stand up.
If our fights were more static or just less 3D, I expect the feat would be less beneficial.

 

[Eis]

I'm gonna be that guy, may you all forgive me

athlete feat isn't that bad.....a little tinactin clears it right up

 

[Ashrym]

The feat does potentially let a PC jump farther because the 5 feet of movement saved in the running start if 5 feet of movement that can be applied to the jump. For example, a 25' speed dwarf with 20 STR can spend 5' of move for 20' long jump movement but needing a running start only leaves 15' of movement remaining for the jump on that turn barring use of the dash action.

It's not a feat I prioritize but I have considered it for a top up after other feats. I probably wouldn't even consider it after other feats without the +1 ability score increase.

Interesting. Since that has neither the +1 to an attribute from Athlete, nor the thing about Opportunity Attacks from Mobile, did any of your players take it?

We should also talk about Prodigy. Anybody take it? Anybody know anybody who has taken it? I have yet to see it used. With a +1 to an attribute (maybe to the attribute associated with the skill you take expertise in) I would take it for this build, with expertise in Athletics and +1 to Str.

I've taken prodigy several times for the extra skill proficiency and expertise on fighters. The class has room for feats and uses ability checks. I combine it with the criminal or urchin background and observant feat (for the passive check bonuses) on a DEX build depending on party makeup.

 

[Todd Roybark]

I’ve seen a high strength Rogue character use the Athlete feat to decent effect. The character would do some Assassin’s Creed style antics.

Dash, as a bonus action, in combination with the Jump/Climb benefits of the feat, can
lead to parkour style fun.

I wish it gave a boost to swimming as well.

It does feel like the feat needs a little more oomph. I allowed the character to add their proficiency bonus to their Jump distance.

I’ve also toyed with the notion of having the feat allow the character to disregard or negate one level of Exhaustion.