D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[Maxperson]

Okay, @Chaosmancer didn't say that, though. You're jumping to conclusions and making slippery slope arguments.

And, no. When you include dragons as people, that doesn't suddenly make aliens that depend on taking advantage/eating humanoids to exist be people. No one thinks that Aberrations should be people (except flumphs, obviously), and stop pulling out strawmen.

Also, I agree with them. You cannot point to an intelligent group of people and say that they're not people because of their culture. You can do that based on how they reproduce and live. Mind Flayers have to eat brains to live, which makes them not people. You cannot be a person if you do that as a species to live.

Also, answer my question. What is your definition of person, and how does it invalidate Orcs, but still allow elves and dwarves to be people?

Did you even read the sentence I quoted from him?

 

[Hussar]

In the interest of giving this position a proper response:

/snip

Here's my original statement, if you don't remember what I said:

"My question is this: Do you think that orcs are just going to get replaced by another race, like goblins or demons or undead or gnolls? If so, doesn't it mean the issue still stands? Or do you think it is possible for some kind of compromise? "
/snip

No. I do not. I do not think there needs to be any sort of compromise here. You are inventing problems (demons, undead or gnolls) where none exist. No one has said we need to change any of those things. Well, maybe gnolls. But, instead, we've spent the last four pages trying to explain why we want to change ORCS and again, being derailed into endless "whatabouts".

I stated all the way back on the second page of this thread that I thought there should be no compromise. That given the choice between inclusivity or tradition, inclusivity wins every time.

Do I think this is some sort of slippery slope where orcs get replaced by another race? No, I don't. Because no one has ever really complained about those other races. Orcs and drow have been complained about for DECADES. If other races were going to be problematic, they would already BE problematic. Will they be problematic in the future? I don't know. I left my crystal ball at home.

What I am not going to do is pretend that future problems that don't exist right now are justifications for blocking changes to problems that DO exist right now.

 

[Maxperson]

So, people have to be mammalian now too?

Aboleth's aren't people, they are a collected hive mind reborn throughout the ages.

So then this, "But, I don't think the value in personhood can be defined by pointing to an intelligent group and saying "they aren't people". wasn't true? You just pointed at an intelligent group and said, "they aren't people."

If we're including Orcs and Dragons, then why not Illithids, Demons and Aboleths?

 

[Doug McCrae]

In my view all the primitive, tribal evil humanoids with less-than-human mental faculties are a problem. The #1 most pressing, and easily fixed, problem is the 5e MM art for goblins and hobgoblins as it's a caricature of East Asian people. Of these humanoids orcs are the biggest problem, because they most closely resemble a racist's idea of black people. Of particular concern here are their traits of fecundity and sexual threat.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Did you even read the sentence I quoted from him?

Will you stop dodging the question, stop trolling, and actually answer what the heck your definition of personhood is?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

So then this, "But, I don't think the value in personhood can be defined by pointing to an intelligent group and saying "they aren't people". wasn't true? You just pointed at an intelligent group and said, "they aren't people."

If we're including Orcs and Dragons, then why not Illithids, Demons and Aboleths?

Can you freaking read a single one of my posts? I've stated multiple reasons form not making Illithids, Aboleths, Aberrations in general, and Demons in general be considered people.

 

[Maxperson]

Will you stop dodging the question, stop trolling, and actually answer what the heck your definition of personhood is?

Insults now? And I answered this question earlier in the thread.

 

[Maxperson]

Can you freaking read a single one of my posts? I've stated multiple reasons form not making Illithids, Aboleths, Aberrations in general, and Demons in general be considered people.

I wasn't asking you that question, was I?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Insults now? And I answered this question earlier in the thread.

Point me to that post, then. What do you feel is a correct definition of personhood. You haven't answered that, as far as I've seen.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I wasn't asking you that question, was I?

And @Chaosmancer agreed with me on the answer of the question you asked. I have a right to point that out to you.