D&D 5E How should be the future Oriental Adventures.

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I stand corrected - I still don't think it needs to be a class in 5E though.

I agree. This is 5th Ed, so almost nothing niche deserves its own class. Almost everything can be handled in other ways.

 

[Azzy]

Ninjas do deserve a subclass, but only for "ninja magic". Sohei doesn't even need to be a subclass. It's just a Cleric RP'd in a specific way in 5E terms.

We already have the Way of Shadow that's explicitly called out as a ninja in its text. And then there's the Assassin which is very ninja. Plus the Arcane Trickster serves well as a magic ninja.

 

[Azzy]

I do miss the 1e OA classes, though I find they all fit perfectly well into the existing 5e classes as subclass

Agreed.

OA Barbarian: Well...works without doing much at all.

I think it would be nice to have an equestrian barabarian subclass. It even has relevence outside of Asian-inspired settings, and can be done without trying to be a horrible stereotype of Mongols, Huns, and such.

Sohei: This could easily fit as a cleric, monk or even fighter subclass.

Personally, I would make it into a Paladin subclass since it shares a lot of paladin-esque traits. Probably wouldn't call it "Sohei", though.

Wu Jen: A wizard or sorcerer subclass (or one for either, though at first blush, it strikes me as a better fit for sorcerer...or perhaps even warlock would be better)

I'd go with Wizard. We already could use an elementalist Wizard subclass. Just give it the option to use either the classical Western element (which were also used, in a slightly modified form, by Buddhists by way of India), or the Chinese Wuxing "elements". I'd also skip the name "Wu Jen" as well, given its applicability to multiple cultures and the fact that the term "wu jen" is just a creation by the OA designers, and instead give it a general name like "School of the Elements" and just name drop "fāngshì" (or one of the other many Chinese terms for wizard/socerers), "onmyōji", etc. in the same way that the Way of Shadow name drops "ninja".

I'd also like to see a shamanic druid subclass then encompasses the Chinese Wu and other cultural shamanic practices.

 

[Count_Zero]

So, I've given a lot of thought in terms of, if WotC was going to do a successor/replacement book for what OA is (but not called Oriental Adventures), they should probably.

1. As has been mentioned repeatedly, but bears repeating - not call it OA. Instead, use the title of the setting for the book.
2. Have more than one setting book, each based around a particular geographically and thematically linked cultures, based on what works for a roleplaying campaign. Your Polynesian based setting isn't going to fit with your Japanese inspired setting which isn't going to work with your Chinese inspired setting. Not just culturally - but in terms of the kinds of campaigns players are going to want to run as well.
   
   This discussion thus far has been operating from the perspective of you're only going to do one book. If you're going to a culturally respectful, sensitive replacement for OA, you're either going to need more than one book, or you're going to need one Rules Cyclopedia Sized bullet-stopper. I'm leaning towards multiple books.
3. Whatever setting you're doing, bring writers from those cultures onboard in prominent roles for the respective book. Lead designers, lead artists, editors, etc. They should take point in the design of the setting - that way you can avoid pitfalls that a white person in the same position would blunder into, and they'll come up with good ideas that your perspective as an outsider would overlook.
4. As has been mentioned, you're probably gonna screw up in some manner or another anyway, so own up to it with an introduction at the very start of each book recognizing that you're going to step on some rakes, and apologize in advance.
5. As part of this - donate a chunk of your take on each book to a (well researched) charity that benefits the ethnic groups in question, just to get in front of things.

 

[Azzy]

Just a quick question (sorry, I didn't read the whole thread yet) but how come "non-Western" cultures need to be portrayed accurately and respectfully, while "vanilla" western fantasy happily mixes (Celtic) druids, late-medieval Knights (Paladins), Renaissance-era tech, pseudo-Vikings, Barbarians, and generally is all over the place in terms of geography and time-period when it comes to Europe, with not the slightest pretense of accuracy?
I'm not begging the question "Shouldn't Europeans also be offended?" I'd just like to point out that if "vanilla" fantasy is already a pastiche, nobody should bat an eyelash at "exotic" fantasy also being a pastiche.

Yes, D&D is based on a multitude of different European (mostly Western European) myths, legends, folklore, and literature as well as contemporary fantasy literature. It's a pastiche of Middle Ages Europe through the lens of Americans (of European decent). However, the earliest D&D campaigns were less occupied in presenting cultural verisimilitude or even elements of culture outside of what was immediately necessary.

That said, Western Europe of the Middle Ages had a lot of overlap in their legends and stories. For instance, King Arthur and the Matter of England may have started off in England, but other European countries (such as France and Germany) absorbed and added t its mythos. Likewise, Charlemagne and the Matter of France was absorbed and popular far outside of France. The Matter of Rome (comprised of loose and often anachronistic adaptions the Greco-Roman myths and Classical history) were also popular throughout Western Europe. Add to this, contemporary fantasy literature from Europe and America drew from these and other Pan-European sources to create their own pastiches.

That said, I don't think there's so much wrong with having an Asian-inspired pastiche so much as in how and by who it's done. D&D has a history of presenting "non-Western" cultures as not- versions of themselves with serial numbers poorly files off. This is evidenced in Kara-Tur's two Chinas, two Japans, Korea, etc. (sometimes even using historical names of said countries as the their fantasy names—see Wa and Koryo), Maztica, Mystara's various -not- countries, etc. It's always a view of "non-Western" cultures seen through the lens of Westerners that have little actual knowledge of those cultures (aside from what they could dig up from their local library) and consciously or subconsciously exotify and other those cultures. If a "non-Western" culture pastiche was created by or in concert by those from said culture or their inheritors that still remained respectful, I don't think you'd see a lot of complaints. I could be wrong, though, as it's not my place to determine what is acceptable or not acceptable to people of cultures that are not my own.

 

[Azzy]

I think it's interesting that 3e subtly had a bunch of Asian influences in it's psionic classes. It was capitalized on with the now rejected Mystic class from the UA playtests.

The Psion had some Indian influences on it as a Psionic Discipline is basically a Siddhi , and other cases tried to treat a bunch of the concepts of Ki as Psionics. There was even Tibetan influences such as Psionic Wands being called Dorje and the Metacreation discipline using Astral Constructs (called Tulpas in Tibetan). Of course 3e psionics also threw in a bunch of Victorian paranormal/pseudoscience concepts such as Ectoplasm.

3e/3.5e's take on psionics is probably my favorite of any edition.

 

[Zardnaar]

Dear WotC

Please do not make any more OA themed stuff.

 

[Mecheon]

Please do not make any more OA themed stuff.

I mean, no one's asking for that and I'm sure people would be hella down for adding kitsune or vanara to the game

Just, it takes care and delicacy to do so alongside not calling it OA

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Do you remember any manga where the characters are Caucasian, even blonde with blue eyes, but the look and the spirit is "Oriental"?


This is not about a reboot of Kara-Tur but how to create the right tools to allow others to produce their own Kara-Tur. It's not about how to open a door to enter Asian market but how to sell the pieces to be used by Asian publishers (videogames, manga/manwha/manhua and anime/aein/donghua) to open the doors toward the Western fandom. It`s about how to produce the "bricks" to build a bridge between the different cultures, and not only Western-Orient but also between the different Asian countries.

* I have seen Kung-Fu Panda is by Pearl Studios (Chinse Dreamworks). This means it's "made in China".


* Shouldn't the furure "xuanhuan" PC races (hengeyokai, vanara, korobokuru, spirit-folk..) and "wulin" classes to be in the SRD?

* Is the term "jianghu" enough politically correct or maybe this for the "underground wuxia" subgenre?

 

[Mecheon]

This is not about a reboot of Kara-Tur but how to create the right tools to allow others to produce their own Kara-Tur. It's not about how to open a door to enter Asian market but how to sell the pieces to be used by Asian publishers (videogames, manga/manwha/manhua and anime/aein/donghua) to open the doors toward the Western fandom. It`s about how to produce the "bricks" to build a bridge between the different cultures, and not only Western-Orient but also between the different Asian countries.

Or, and here's a hot take, produce D&D as is rather than trying to produce Kara-Tur as is. There is no big demand for people wanting to make their own Kara-Tur out that way. D&D is good at being D&D, it is not good at being 'Simulator of the entire world', and trying to pretend its anything other than that is a road to disappointment.

* Shouldn't the furure "xuanhuan" PC races (hengeyokai, vanara, korobokuru, spirit-folk..) and "wulin" classes to be in the SRD?

See, 90% of the problem is you just slapping Xuanhuan and Wulin in there for the sake of being mysterious. This is where a lot of the flak towards OA comes from, it making the East seem like this big ol' special place and whatnot. You're not calling the standard races "Races in the vein of LotR", don't call stuff that may come from OA anything different than what they are, which is new races.

As for those, well, Hengeyokai need to be rebuilt from the ground up because they are terrible at resembling the actual mythic entities they're supposed to resemble, Korobokuru also need to be rebuilt away from their "We need something to fill the dwarf hole uh let's just slap in this Ainu myth" and actually, y'know, tie off what mythology is out there, whereas Vanara and Spirit-Folk (Did I ever mention I hate this name? I hate this name.) would be better served in an expansion. There is not at this point in time a need to add any classes themed around the East given what we have works reasonably well, with the possible exception of wanting a priest-y class that's less armor-clad as the cleric.