D&D General D&D Settings with No Problematic Areas?

Panda-s1

Scruffy and Determined
That's assuming someone has the funding to hire an art director. What do to do with independent writers (and other artsist) who lack the economic resources to hire cultural consultants and lack the time to read through dozens (and often conflicting) historical texts?

Let's look at an example. Let's say, for instance, I'm an aspiring novelist and I use the term "master bedroom". Will my novel be rejected by a publisher? I don't know. The word master might be a reference to slavery, but it could also be an reference to master-apprentice system. The term originated in the 1920s Macy's catalog, well after the end of slavery, but during a time when Jim Crow laws existed in the US. In the 1920s, however, apprenticeship were also common. How I am supposed to know if this phrase is appropriate or not? I might use it thinking it is completely reasonable, but then receive pushback later on.

The key is that I'm not sure and I don't have any resources. I'm working a day job, writing novels at night, but struggling to get my foot in the door. I don't have the extra cash to hire consultants, and the seemingly simple act of finding an agent is a monuments task. A single word can be the difference between an accepted and rejected work.

What advice would you give this person in order to ensure he or she does not violate the unwritten standards of inclusivity?
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okay as a PoC myself, I feel like you're overthinking this. like that's my honest opinion. "does not violate the unwritten standards of inclusivity" what, you think we work together as a shadowy cabal deciding what is and isn't offensive or something just to catch people off guard for being racist? come on....

I don't want to belittle any actual anxiety you have, but to put things in perspective look at the story I told upthread. I always have anxiety over whether or not I want to reveal my ethnic background to people. like can you imagine what would happen if after my coworker told that joke I told him I was Korean? I never did, no one in the studio knew because I didn't feel it was worth revealing this.

now first of all an art director isn't someone you hire, they're someone who works for a company or group who needs to get art for whatever reason. their main task is to make sure the art meets the company's needs and that includes giving out guidelines to the artists they're commissioning. if you're gonna deal with one it's because they hired you.

secondly, you have a resource. it's called Google. and unless you put something egregiously or obviously racist in your book they're not gonna reject it (well, out of racism at least). now I google "master bedroom" and yeah there's a ton of conversation going on. unfortunately people are starting to realize some of the language we use happens to be racist in origin, but this happens all the time, and anything we currently consider egregious will almost always appear as such. given this situation I highly doubt they're gonna drop you on the spot because of that, and I can guarantee you even after these conversations we're having right now there'll still be stuff that gets published with casual racism for quite some time. if you're genuinely worried you're already doing better than some people.

if you want help there are people you can hire such as sensitivity readers who can read your work and point out anything that might be off, I imagine they'd be happy to help so long as you hire them in good faith.
 

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okay as a PoC myself, I feel like you're overthinking this. like that's my honest opinion. "does not violate the unwritten standards of inclusivity" what, you think we work together as a shadowy cabal deciding what is and isn't offensive or something just to catch people off guard for being racist? come on....

Um...no. I think everyone has a different standard, usually one that people generally keep to themselves. What might be anti-inclusive to someone, but be fine to someone else and vice versa. As a result, what constitutes anti-inclusive language and behavior is often unpredictable. Yet at the same time, people are expected to speak or act in an inclusive way.

I don't want to belittle any actual anxiety you have, but to put things in perspective look at the story I told upthread. I always have anxiety over whether or not I want to reveal my ethnic background to people. like can you imagine what would happen if after my coworker told that joke I told him I was Korean? I never did, no one in the studio knew because I didn't feel it was worth revealing this.

now first of all an art director isn't someone you hire, they're someone who works for a company or group who needs to get art for whatever reason. their main task is to make sure the art meets the company's needs and that includes giving out guidelines to the artists they're commissioning. if you're gonna deal with one it's because they hired you.

I understand what an art director is. I was merely responding to someone's suggestion to hire an art director, and took that person at his or her word.

Like I said, I'm not worried about companies. Companies have more financial resources to protect themselves. They can do more to ensure their works don't offend anyone than individuals can.

I'm promoting about individuals and want to see more art in the world, not less.

secondly, you have a resource. it's called Google. and unless you put something egregiously or obviously racist in your book they're not gonna reject it (well, out of racism at least). now I google "master bedroom" and yeah there's a ton of conversation going on. unfortunately people are starting to realize some of the language we use happens to be racist in origin, but this happens all the time, and anything we currently consider egregious will almost always appear as such. given this situation I highly doubt they're gonna drop you on the spot because of that, and I can guarantee you even after these conversations we're having right now there'll still be stuff that gets published with casual racism for quite some time. if you're genuinely worried you're already doing better than some people.

Google is useful, but insufficient. It can only tell us what phrases have provoked a negative in reaction in the past, but it provides little knowledge of what phrases might provoke future outrage. Expecting every creative individual to become a cultural anthropologist is not feasible. We need to decide on clear, understandable guidelines for anti-inclusive language and behavior that can be discussed and refined openly. As of now, there is simply too much unpredictability in the standards artists are expected to uphold.

if you want help there are people you can hire such as sensitivity readers who can read your work and point out anything that might be off, I imagine they'd be happy to help so long as you hire them in good faith.

Should we really expect individuals to hire consultants for this sort of thing? Many artists are already struggling financially. I don't think setting the financing barrier to entry even higher is the right answer.
 

HorusArisen

Explorer
There are no problematic settings only problematic fans.

If you’re looking for reasons to be offended by settings you’ll find them. There’s not a single ‘authentic’ Celtic sourcebook that doesn’t make me roll my eyes but I still play them. Same with any that glorify the Anglo-Saxons but I love the Lloegres supplement for Mythras.

It used to be you could come to a gaming forum and have fun chatting about your games. Now it’s ninety percent about how offensive orc/Drow/Tiefling/combat/medieval time-periods etc etc etc is.
 

Aldarc

Legend
@WayOfTheFourElements, I would tell this hypothetical aspiring writer much the same advice I would tell a kid about growing up or being an adult. You will fall and stumble, and it may hurt, but what matters is your willingness to get up and keep going forward. You will make mistakes and occasionally fail, but what matters is your willingness to learn from those mistakes and try to be the best person that you can be, while trying to respect others and show integrity. You will face criticism for your actions, but what matters is how you learn and grow from that criticism.

But what would you tell this hypothetical person?
 
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Sadras

Legend
Baron Urik Von Kharkov (Valacha): Hoo-boy. A black man with a germanic/slavic hybrid name ruling a jungle domain. Made worse when you find out he was a PANTHER turned into a man and then into a vampire. He is literally a beast-made-man-made-Dracula.

I just want to touch on this Darklord as I have the 2e Darklords book. I'm not going to touch on the others because I am not familiar with them as I only own 4 Ravenloft books (excluding the novels) throughout the editions. This was done purposefully so that another friend of mine could DM the Ravenloft setting and thus my knowledge would be limited.

Anyways getting back to this Baron.
Is the issue because he is black person who exists within a jungle domain?
Or is this a reference to the Black Panther?
Or are we drawing the comparison of beast (savage trope) turned human (civilised)?
Or something else.
 

@WayOfTheFourElements, I would tell this hypothetical aspiring writer I would tell a kid about growing up or being an adult. You will fall and stumble, and it may hurt, but what matters is your willingness to get up and keep going forward. You will make mistakes and occasionally fail, but what matters is your willingness to learn from those mistakes and try to be the best person that you can be, while trying to respect others and show integrity. You will face criticism for your actions, but what matters is how you learn and grow from that criticism.

But what would you tell this hypothetical person?

I think that's good general advice. But I'm not sure it applies to the high school kids being denied places in universities due to social media posts, James Damore at Google, or Jordan Peterson at Cambridge University.

Perhaps I've lost faith in humanity's ability to forgive, but even after someone apologizes we often see forgiveness denied. Better not to make any mistakes in order to prevent losing invaluable opportunities - because forgiveness does not appear to be universal.
 

Aldarc

Legend
I think that's good general advice. But I'm not sure it applies to the high school kids being denied places in universities due to social media posts, James Damore at Google, or Jordan Peterson at Cambridge University.

Perhaps I've lost faith in humanity's ability to forgive, but even after someone apologizes we often see forgiveness denied. Better not to make any mistakes in order to prevent losing invaluable opportunities - because forgiveness does not appear to be universal.
Umm... well then. I guess this conversation about a purely hypothetical aspiring TTRPG artist just unnecessarily escalated into an untouchable can of worms.
 

Umm... well then. I guess this conversation about a purely hypothetical aspiring TTRPG artist just unnecessarily escalated into an untouchable can of worms.

Unfortunately, they are connected. I've been told on this forum, after expressing that I wished politics could stay out of games, that art and politics are inseparable. I worry that forcing artists (I've also been told here that elf games are art) to walk on eggshells will not end until the political mess is solved.
 

Panda-s1

Scruffy and Determined
Um...no. I think everyone has a different standard, usually one that people generally keep to themselves. What might be anti-inclusive to someone, but be fine to someone else and vice versa. As a result, what constitutes anti-inclusive language and behavior is often unpredictable. Yet at the same time, people are expected to speak or act in an inclusive way.
first of all if you want to get anywhere with this you can do better than treat us like a goddamn minefield. though if you want to I will say some of the mines are very big, with big blinking red lights with a sign pointing at it saying "THIS IS A MINE DO NOT STEP ON IT". I'm here because I play fun elf game. do you think I play D&D to ruin other people's fun?

secondly if this is your attitude about racism and inclusion, why aren't you also worried about being a writer or artist beyond this issue? like let's pretend for a second that inclusivity wasn't an issue, do you honestly think it'd be any easier for you to establish a career if you didn't have to worry about it? there's a lot that goes into becoming a successful writer or artist, this isn't something that started a month ago, it's always been that way.
I understand what an art director is. I was merely responding to someone's suggestion to hire an art director, and took that person at his or her word.

Like I said, I'm not worried about companies. Companies have more financial resources to protect themselves. They can do more to ensure their works don't offend anyone than individuals can.

I'm promoting about individuals and want to see more art in the world, not less.
did art stop?

....seriously, did art stop? I know WotC dropped 2 MTG artists recently, but they had good reason to: one of them had deeply racist and transphobic views and the other was a known serial sexual harasser. do you feel like you fit either of these descriptions?
Google is useful, but insufficient. It can only tell us what phrases have provoked a negative in reaction in the past, but it provides little knowledge of what phrases might provoke future outrage. Expecting every creative individual to become a cultural anthropologist is not feasible. We need to decide on clear, understandable guidelines for anti-inclusive language and behavior that can be discussed and refined openly. As of now, there is simply too much unpredictability in the standards artists are expected to uphold.
why are you worried about the future? things change. that's life. when West Side Story came out it was praised as an amazing musical, it won an Oscar for best film. nowadays? we talk about the portrayal of Puerto Ricans in the film, and how the female lead was a white actress in brownface and how this is probably bad. but people still like the movie. people point out the problems in Lord of the Rings but even knowing them still enjoy the books and movies.

the best you can do is adapt and change. a lot of authors and artists do this as time goes on and people still follow them. you know who will get spit on at the drop of a hat? the ones who refuse to learn and go to great lengths to defend their bigoted views.
Should we really expect individuals to hire consultants for this sort of thing? Many artists are already struggling financially. I don't think setting the financing barrier to entry even higher is the right answer.
first of all if you're this worried then don't write about things you don't know. that's a good start. but also I'm pretty sure someone like a sensitivity reader will understand what it means to struggle financially, it's kinda part of the minority experience. I don't have resources available to me, unfortunately, but I'm sure if you look you can find someone with affordable services.
I think that's good general advice. But I'm not sure it applies to the high school kids being denied places in universities due to social media posts, James Damore at Google, or Jordan Peterson at Cambridge University.
do you see yourself doing anything those people did? have you done anything those people did? doesn't sound like it.
Unfortunately, they are connected. I've been told on this forum, after expressing that I wished politics could stay out of games, that art and politics are inseparable. I worry that forcing artists (I've also been told here that elf games are art) to walk on eggshells will not end until the political mess is solved.
yes. it's always been this way. maybe you've seen the portrait of Che Guevara. it's one of the most popular photographs ever taken. in some places he's vilified, in others he's a hero of the highest order. how you view him depends on your politics. I can't post that picture here because it's political. that picture is also 60 years old. art is poltical. it's always been political. it didn't become political a month ago. it's not gonna stop being political anytime in your's or my lifetime. "until the political mess is solved" that political mess has always been there and might be for some time.

despite all this an amazing number of artists and authors have become wildly successful. and a lot of them are very good. you can worry about your own potential career all you want, but don't make it sound like this is going to prevent all art going forward. it's never stopped it before.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I worry that forcing artists (I've also been told here that elf games are art) to walk on eggshells will not end until the political mess is solved.

Mod Note:
If you feel that way, maybe you should go out into the world and clean up the political mess, and not focus so much on the things that are merely symptoms of the larger problem?

What happened to someone at Google, or a professor hoping to work at Cambridge University are not directly relevant to gaming and RPG settings. Let us please bring things back around to something relevant.
 
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