D&D 5E What Makes an Orc an Orc?

[Maxperson]

So, yes, rape between enemy peoples has been common throughout history. But here's the question, that I'm only asking you to think about, not answer: how often do you envision Half-elves as being the product of rape, versus Half-orcs? If it's not approximately equal, then you have fallen for a variant of racist propaganda that exactly mirrors the propaganda used in the real world, historically and present day, to dehumanize others.

First, it's only propaganda here in the real world. Propaganda is false and it's not false in game. Second, speaking for myself, I have had it happen in about equal numbers between half-elves and half-orcs. I never really stopped to consider it before you asked that question, but when I sat back and thought about it, I discovered it's close to the same.

 

[FrogReaver]

Right, The point is that the horrible wrong stereotypes about the natives is true in this fantasy setting. This doesn't make it okay, not even remotely.

In my worldview it does.

 

[Oofta]

Nope. Wrong. That's not what people are saying. That's how it is being mischaracterized by those who don't want to have to understand.

Please believe me that if you still think that's what's going on, you really really do not understand the problem. Instead of doggedly returning to this strawman every time you post, please ask questions, read what people are writing, and try to understand.

My new hobby is going to be correcting @Oofta every time he repeats this falsehood.

Again, you just reiterate that you are correct and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. How exactly do you think that is helpful? Why is it okay to just throw constant insults?

No, the argument is that labelling a sentient species capable of feeling, loving, redemption, charity, mercy, altruism, love and kindness (i.e. Orcs) as 'vermin, worthy of only genocide because they're inherently evil' - which from memory is something you tried to do a few weeks back, along with @Helldritch - is problematic to say the least.
...

I've never promoted genocide. Is it okay to kill demons and devils because they're evil? Because they have different fluff?

It's just a game. Some people want to play a TTRPG version of Doom. Some people want to explore the moral complexity of war. Most people are somewhere in between. I don't have a problem supporting the entire spectrum of play.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

In my worldview it does.

And this is the fundamental difference. Some of us think that racist propaganda disguised as fantasy is okay, some of us don't.

 

[Maxperson]

Do you understand that in common D&D portrayal it is the 'evil orcs' that are cast in the role of Native Americans and it is the 'good heroes' who are in the role of the white settlers. That is super disturbing. "Lets slaughter these primitive natives except this time it is completely justified because it says 'chaotic evil' in their stat block." That's just naughty word up, I'd side with the orcs.

Nope. We understand that none of the monsters are cast in the role of Native Americans and none of the heroes are white settlers. You are making(forcing) a connection that simply doesn't exist.

 

[Maxperson]

You mean...like Europeans?

Did you deliberately cut out the part where he said, "It was more often reversed." in order to score internet points, or was it a happy coincidence?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Do you understand that in common D&D portrayal it is the 'evil orcs' that are cast in the role of Native Americans and it is the 'good heroes' who are in the role of the white settlers. That is super disturbing. "Lets slaughter these primitive natives except this time it is completely justified because it says 'chaotic evil' in their stat block." That's just naughty word up, I'd side with the orcs.

No, I don't understand that, and I have NEVER seen it. YMMV of course.

 

[FrogReaver]

And this is the fundamental difference. Some of us think that racist propaganda disguised as fantasy is okay, some of us don't.

In my worldview it’s not racist propaganda, it’s a fact of the fantasy world that I’m able to differentiate from the real world.

It’s only your worldview that associates the two.

 

[FrogReaver]

Did you deliberately cut out the part where he said, "It was more often reversed." in order to score internet points, or was it a happy coincidence?

If you see it there it must be true. He can’t discount your experiences after all...

 

[Sadras]

What is happening here then?

We are trying to sanitise our games so that we can sanitise ourselves.
For years we have tried it the other way around and it hasn't worked well for the human race.
So we are now embracing the fight in our niche hobby and one day we will work our way up to MSM and our leaders.

Join up now.
Young people from all over the globe are joining up to fight for the future.
I'm doing my part!
I'm doing my part!
I'm doing my part!
I'm doing my part too!
They're doing their part. Are you?
Join the change.orc and save the world.
Service guarantees citizenship!

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