D&D 5E What To Do With Racial ASIs?

[Charlaquin]

Needed might be the wrong word, but your words imply that mechanics are combat-centric. Your words:
"As long as the game rules are disproportionately focused on resolving combat, discussion of the game’s design will be similarly focused on combat. Obviously DMs can compensate for this combat focus on their own tables, but we’re talking about the game’s design and mechanics here."

So I point out that skill checks are just as important as combat, and they are also intricate to the mechanics of the game. I mean, stealth is just as strong as a good armor class. The ability to nature check a creature could increase damage as much as a barbarian going into rage. So skills count. Yet, they are avoided in the discussion, because it is not a number added to a person's to hit, damage or spell dc. I find that to be a limited take, and not addressing the debate in its entirety.

The game’s rules are disproportionately focused on combat, and skills do matter. There is nothing contradictory about those two statements. Accordingly, any discussion of the game’s design is bound to be similarly focused on mechanics. That doesn’t mean skills don’t matter, they are just a proportionally lesser focus.

 

[DND_Reborn]

We don't always create characters this way, but one time I did a Completely Random character. I rolled the stats in order, then rolled the race and subrace at random, then the class and subclass at random, and finally the background at random. And that's how I came to play one of my favorite characters, a dragonborn cleric of Bahamut with the Soldier background. To explain his 5 in Dexterity, I said that he had mangled his leg in battle and wears a heavy metal brace.

Optimization is overrated.

Doing ability scores (to a point) and race I can understand. You certainly don't choose who your parents are and can only do so much to determine what strong abilities you have. But the choose of class made sense.

In 5E, I would probably do random background, but maybe offer 3 choices since you can have some influence on that IMO.

But yes, optimization is definitely overrated.

 

[Helldritch]

Wow. In my 39 years of RPGing I haven't recorded the data as carefully as you, so I can't possibly argue with a 0.0 margin of error.

You win. I concede the point.

Come on. Don't be a jerk. No need to record data. This is not an analytical study of a master's degree of Harvard nor are we all here to be demeaned in this way. This is what I have seen over the years with numerous players. Maybe an exception here and there but it was generally with experienced gamers that had tried many other game systems. This is, my experience. Now if you have introduced as many players into the hobby as I did and made presentations to parents and teachers and schoolboards as I did, please share your experience. I am very curious. And even if you have done less initiations into the hobby as I did, please share your experience.

Nitpicking does not suit you or this forum.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Come on. Don't be a jerk. No need to record data. This is not an analytical study of a master's degree of college nor are we all here to be demeaned in this way. This is what I have seen over the years with numerous players. Maybe an exception here and there but it was generally with experienced gamers that had tried many other game systems. This is, my experience. Now if you have introduced as many players into the hobby as I did and made presentation to parents and teachers and schoolboard as I did, please share your experience. I am very curious. And even if you have done less initiations into the hobby as I did, please share your experience.

Nitpicking does not suit you or this forum.

Then use words carefully. You made a claim as if it were established fact. Then when I called you on it you made an improbable claim.

As for my experience, sure, people have some preconceived motions. I certainly haven’t paid a lot of attention to it. Tolkien fans tend to be surprised that elves aren’t tall, and halflings aren’t barefoot, I guess. Some people think gnomes should be 6” tall. Not that it’s ever gotten in the way.

I can’t imagine that any one of them would, in the absence of racial ASIs, respond with “Wait...aren’t Dwarves supposed to be stronger than elves?” Or whatever.

But I don’t know for sure because it never came up.

Come to think of it, my first character ever, made for me by a friend’s older brother, was an elf with 18/33 strength. I didn’t find that strange.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I can’t imagine that any one of them would, in the absence of racial ASIs, respond with “Wait...aren’t Dwarves supposed to be stronger than elves?” Or whatever.

Perhaps. But halflings being just as strong as orcs or goliaths might elicit a reaction.

In any case, in any edition of D&D I can't remember anyone ever expressing surprise that racial ability modifiers exist.

 

[Maxperson]

High elves and gnomes would make excellent wizards if ASIs floated... And mountain dwarves only make sub-par wizards as-is...

They are only sub-par, because we the players have raised par from where the game assumes it to be, to the maximum stat plus racial bonus of +2. Bounded accuracy means that the game doesn't assume max stats in order to be capable. Mountain dwarves are par as wizards and what we think of as par is below par(Below because golf )

 

[Maxperson]

Only barbarians I've seen are human, goliath and half orc
Only Rogues Elves, half-elves, humans, halflings
Only warlocks half-elves, tieflings, Aasimar

I'd say easily 85% to 90% of all characters I've seen are optimized like that.

In fact, going off the top of my head, here are two parties that we've got.

Party 1
Wood Elf Ranger
Aasimar Sorcerer/cleric (1 level)
Halfing Rogue
Human Paladin
Half-Orc Barbarian
Half-Orc Cleric

Party 2
Half-Elf Rogue
Half Elf Druid
Human Warlock
Half-Orc Barbarian
Tielfing Cleric

Er.

11 characters, only 2 not optimized to have their ASIs set for their class.

There's nothing wrong with that. Certain races excel at certain things. Players will often, but not always go with that. I tend to buck the trend more than other players, but then I understand that you don't have to be the best in order to do very well in 5e. Bounded accuracy makes a huge difference here. A lot of players are still used to prior editions and haven't wrapped their heads around 5e's changes.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Perhaps. But halflings being just as strong as orcs or goliaths might elicit a reaction.

If halflings were as strong as orcs probably. But if it were merely a possibility within the rules, I would think not. Not from brand new RPGers.

Especially if the orcs had other racial abilities that expressed the idea of strength.

In any case, in any edition of D&D I can't remember anyone ever expressing surprise that racial ability modifiers exist.

No, I'm certainly not claiming that. I don't think racial ASIs are illogical. They just aren't necessary, and they have undesirable side effects.

 

[CleverNickName]

Re: mountain dwarves making sub-par wizards, and certain races excelling at certain things--

It's a problem, for sure. But it shouldn't be. In an ideal game, anyone would make an excellent wizard if they had the proper training or education. If you think about it, wizard mountain dwarves could be amazing! Scribing their "spellbooks" onto stone tablets and runestones, and adorning the walls of their centuries-old Halls of Knowledge with forgotten magic. Using their arcane power, they shatter stone and fire their forges, shaping flame and stone and metal, and call forth creatures from the Plane of Earth to smash their foes.

Half-orc wizards would be awesome also. I imagine them tattooing their "spellbooks" onto their arms, legs, and chest according to the ancient traditions of their ancestors. Drawing upon the primal force of chaos to hasten or slow time and muddle the minds of trespassers. They don't whisper complicated incantations, they howl and roar their power directly into the faces of the enemy.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Pedantry is getting upset because I mixed up DMG Chapter 9 with an appendix in the MM (thought the monster/NPC factory stuff was in the MM. I'd swear that in some previous edition it was).

That PHB Chapters 1-6* are for players, and DMG Chapter 9 is for DMs, is not pedantry. It's the central claim.

Golaith stat block for PCs no more dictates NPC statblocks then the Drow stat block for PCs dictates for NPC drow.
________
*And similar race/class/background entries in other books.

I didn’t claim anything vaguely like whatever it is that you think I’ve claimed, and your reply makes absolutely no sense to me as a result.

Hat on earth are you talking about?