Level Up (A5E) Which Classes Need "The Most Help" in an Advanced 5E

[Dausuul]

I picked the warlock and the monk. They are fine if the DM is careful about following the DMG guidelines for short and long rests. But this is an additional and unnecessary burden on the DM. Running a campaign is enough work as it is; the DM should not also be tasked with stage-managing the adventure to ensure that two out of 13 classes get their naps.

 

[ScuroNotte]

Ranger - the class resonates failure

Sorcerer - few metamagic gained and selection times are far apart. Too few spells known. Sorcery points are the main focus/power of the class, much as Monks ki, but the pool is extremely limited and they are needed to regain spell slots, meta magic, and subclass features.

 

[Raith5]

I like warlocks but i agree that they need some small tweaks to have an extra spell in mid to high levels and push them to consider using a cantrip other than Eldritch blast.

Aside from the ranger the bard is the class that I find hardest to work. I think the spell list is thematically on point but quite weak in terms of actual impact - especially in combat. Some of the abilities like song of rest scale very badly. I think they need some spells/songs which are limited to the bard class. They also need more cantrips which can help in combat.

 

[tetrasodium]

I like warlocks but i agree that they need some small tweaks to have an extra spell in mid to high levels and push them to consider using a cantrip other than Eldritch blast.

Aside from the ranger the bard is the class that I find hardest to work. I think the spell list is thematically on point but quite weak in terms of actual impact - especially in combat. Some of the abilities like song of rest scale very badly. I think they need some spells/songs which are limited to the bard class. They also need more cantrips which can help in combat.

Eldritch blast needs to decide if it's a cantrip that scales by char level with extra dice or a class feature that scales by class level and be balanced accordingly rather than the best of both. Currently it's effectively 1d10+cha force 120ft range with better attack scaling than fighter extra attack on top of a far better damage type and scaling by character level to get additional attack rolls for better odds than every other cantrip after 5th unlike every other class's extra attacks ability.

 

[Lidgar]

Voted Paladin, because it needs a nerf.

 

[Xeviat]

I voted Ranger, Sorcerer, and Monk, but would have also voted Fighter, Druid, and Warlock if I had a chance.

My thoughts:

Ranger: the ranger needs a more firm identity, and a unique class ability. Skills becoming universal things in 3E robbed the Ranger of their uniqueness. I do want spellcasting to be a ranger's thing, and I've always thought a pet would be a way to make the ranger stand out more unique from Scout Rogues, but many disagree. Giving them a major class ability built around the idea of hunting a target, and possibly taking away their extra attack to help pay for abilities and make them more of a rogue, would be ideal to me.

Sorcerer: The sorcerer needs to feel better. Metamagic could easily be an option for all casters (and just cost higher level spell slots), while sorcerers have the advantage of spending sorcery points. But, their core features should be gaining unique abilities to make them feel like a magical creature: more dragon stuff, more wildmagic stuff, more spoopy stuff.

Monk: I think the Monk needs to be rebuilt as a spellpoint using half-caster, with options for their ki powers. This would allow monks to be built along a spectrum of more grounded to more fantastical. So many of the monks abilities are ways to spend ki, but casters get abilities in addition to their spell slots.

Fighter: the fighter needs identity. They're mechanically strong, but they really need identity. They could also benefit from having more power moved from their Subclasses to the base class, but I understand the desire for a 'simple fighter'.

Warlock: the warlock and the sorcerer share too much identity. I think the warlock needs a stronger tie to hexes and curses to make them feel like they're getting and giving something in their pact.

 

[tetrasodium]

I voted Ranger, Sorcerer, and Monk, but would have also voted Fighter, Druid, and Warlock if I had a chance.

My thoughts:

Ranger: the ranger needs a more firm identity, and a unique class ability. Skills becoming universal things in 3E robbed the Ranger of their uniqueness. I do want spellcasting to be a ranger's thing, and I've always thought a pet would be a way to make the ranger stand out more unique from Scout Rogues, but many disagree. Giving them a major class ability built around the idea of hunting a target, and possibly taking away their extra attack to help pay for abilities and make them more of a rogue, would be ideal to me.

Sorcerer: The sorcerer needs to feel better. Metamagic could easily be an option for all casters (and just cost higher level spell slots), while sorcerers have the advantage of spending sorcery points. But, their core features should be gaining unique abilities to make them feel like a magical creature: more dragon stuff, more wildmagic stuff, more spoopy stuff.

Monk: I think the Monk needs to be rebuilt as a spellpoint using half-caster, with options for their ki powers. This would allow monks to be built along a spectrum of more grounded to more fantastical. So many of the monks abilities are ways to spend ki, but casters get abilities in addition to their spell slots.

Fighter: the fighter needs identity. They're mechanically strong, but they really need identity. They could also benefit from having more power moved from their Subclasses to the base class, but I understand the desire for a 'simple fighter'.

Warlock: the warlock and the sorcerer share too much identity. I think the warlock needs a stronger tie to hexes and curses to make them feel like they're getting and giving something in their pact.

I agree a lot on monk. It's bending over so hard to be a faithful representation of a 70s/80s david carradine/bruce lee kung fu movie character that it has trouble even kinda representing any other magic/mystic ninja samurai whatever & it really doesn't fit very well among the other classes either.
edit: This reminds me of watching a player describe the classes in general terms to a younger player joining an AL game.
20-30something player: Monk is kinda like a bruce lee
10-12ish year old: who?
20-30something player: jackie chan?
10-12ish year old: -vacant state
different player: Lee from Naruto
10-12ish year old: cool which class is like $character from naruto followed by a lot of back & forth not really but sorta kinda maybe some similarity to any if you squint hard enough.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Monk: I think the Monk needs to be rebuilt as a spellpoint using half-caster, with options for their ki powers. This would allow monks to be built along a spectrum of more grounded to more fantastical. So many of the monks abilities are ways to spend ki, but casters get abilities in addition to their spell slots.

I wish the theme of the monk was expanded to the general wuxia/anime martial artist/JRPG character and other unarmored but weapon wielding characters. Remove the forced unarmed fighting thing and allow them to use different weapon. I would also ignore the whole: use DEX for weapon. but not all of them: have their armorless feature give them a flat AC bonus when unarmored.

• Gain +2 or 3 AC when unarmored, can still use shields (to allow for the 300's Spartans or LoZ's Link build). No AC bonus added by Wis.
• Techniques DC based on their Wis mod.
• This would make them reliant on 2 stats, like most gish-y character, with Con being an important third stat. You could go with Dex build to boost your AC and use smaller weapon, or go Str and have a lower AC but use bigger weapons.

High str, Medium dex, con, wis could be Link, Cloud, or any sohei with an halberd, or a gladiators.
High dex, Medium str, con, wis could be a duelist or swashbucker, you traditional ninja or two-daggers dancer.

Make them not based of the old trope of mystical ascetic martial artist, but more as characters that use their fighting style as a way of life.

 

[Asisreo]

I know that nobody complains about Druids because wow! Druid is so tanky and powerful when moon! but, honestly, why is the Druid's main form usually as an animal? Druids should be less beastboy and more Dryad. I get that they're good mechanically but what their flavor is supposed to be versus what the class portrays feels like 2 completely different things.

There shouldn't even be any debate whether a martial can tank better than a druid. A druid should always get their teeth knocked in even in wildshape during melee.

 

[CapnZapp]

I voted Ranger and Sorcerer.

They're the only two PHB classes that desperately need help.

That doesn't mean Level Up should ignore other classes. You asked which classes need help the most. Beastmasters and Wild Mages are the only two subclasses I consider unplayable out of the book.

Sure Berserker Barbarians and Four Elements Monks are mechanically unsound as well, and Land Druids are weaker than Moon Druids, and so on, but not to the extent of the problems of those Ranger and Sorcerer subclasses.