Level Up (A5E) Do Player Characters Have Average Population Stat Distributions?

[Phoebasss]

I disagree with that; there is absolutely a difference in degree between a racial bonus and a racial feature. That's not to say that a racial feature can't be overly strong and cause distortion, but strong racial bonuses are inherently distorting.

And personally, I'm not absolutely opposed to racial bonuses, PF2 is a wonderful example of a D&D-type game that does them right, IMO.

13th Age has awesome racial powers as well! And on the grittier end, Shadow of the Demon Lord has some interesting ideas about racial bonuses.

 

[Guest 6801328]

If it were all in my head my players wouldn't feel the same way.

Nor would D&DBeyond data be as clear as it is.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I think @Elfcrusher said it best upthread, to paraphrase: "If there's only going to be one orc wizard in the world, I want it to be a PC."

Okay, but, there probably are orc wizard NPCs in the world. They just aren't as good as elf wizards.

If I'm putting together a Fellowship of the best and most capable, I would expect an elf ranger and a halfling thief. I wouldn't expect an orc wizard or a gnome barbarian. It just wouldn't make sense that someone operating at so many (cultural or innate) disadvantages would start out on equal footing with someone who had everything in their favor.

 

[Phoebasss]

As I recall, only monsters get those. There are no sample NPCs in the Monster Manual who get legendary actions, lair actions, or legendary saves. That's why they're fair game. There's nothing that an NPC can do that isn't just a greasy mirror reflection of what a PC can do, but monsters represent a different reality entirely.

If I'm playing my level 17 wizard by the PHB rules, and I come across an NPC archmage who can break those rules in obvious and significant ways, then I'm going to call shenanigans.

Eh, I think this is just a fundamental difference in expectations that we can't really resolve. My players haven't had any issues with NPCs breaking the rules because they don't expect the NPCs to play by the PHB guidelines. There are a few exceptions, such as the concept of the BBEG teleporting out without casting a spell and stuff like that. Players like to be able to use their countermeasures like counterspell and dispel magic if the fiction says it ought to work.

 

[Phoebasss]

Okay, but, there probably are orc wizard NPCs in the world. They just aren't as good as elf wizards.

If I'm putting together a Fellowship of the best and most capable, I would expect an elf ranger and a halfling thief. I wouldn't expect an orc wizard or a gnome barbarian. It just wouldn't make sense that someone operating at so many (cultural or innate) disadvantages would start out on equal footing with someone who had everything in their favor.

But I want to see an Orc Wizard who puts high elf society to shame. Whose knowledge and magic powers are on par with the greatest elves. That's a better story to me than an Orc who became a mediocre wizard, but still definitely worse than an elf who tried to be a wizard. That's just not as interesting a story of defying expectations.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Okay, but, there probably are orc wizard NPCs in the world. They just aren't as good as elf wizards.

If I'm putting together a Fellowship of the best and most capable, I would expect an elf ranger and a halfling thief. I wouldn't expect an orc wizard or a gnome barbarian. It just wouldn't make sense that someone operating at so many (cultural or innate) disadvantages would start out on equal footing with someone who had everything in their favor.

God save me from fiction in which everything "makes sense" in a statistically predictable way.

 

[TwoSix]

Eh, I think this is just a fundamental difference in expectations that we can't really resolve. My players haven't had any issues with NPCs breaking the rules because they don't expect the NPCs to play by the PHB guidelines. There are a few exceptions, such as the concept of the BBEG teleporting out without casting a spell and stuff like that. Players like to be able to use their countermeasures like counterspell and dispel magic if the fiction says it ought to work.

Considering at least half my PCs are built primarily using stuff not from the PHB, they really have no room to complain when I modify my NPCs.

 

[TwoSix]

God save me from fiction in which everything "makes sense" in a statistically predictable way.

"Make way for the Fellowship of the Statistically Probable!"

 

[Morrus]

Well, 3E and 5E. The DMG presents three methods for creating NPCs, of which two result in stat blocks; and one of those methods is as a PC.

Yeah, but WotC only uses one of those methods for its NPCs.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

As I recall, only monsters get those. There are no sample NPCs in the Monster Manual who get legendary actions, lair actions, or legendary saves. That's why they're fair game. There's nothing that an NPC can do that isn't just a greasy mirror reflection of what a PC can do, but monsters represent a different reality entirely.

If I'm playing my level 17 wizard by the PHB rules, and I come across an NPC archmage who can break those rules in obvious and significant ways, then I'm going to call shenanigans.

2
Are named humanoids NPCs or monsters? Are humanoids who don't use generic NPC statblocks NPCs or monsters?

Halaster Blackcloak has legendary actions. The Drow Matron Mother has legendary actions. The Lord of Blades has legendary actions. Laeral Silverhand has legendary actions. The Githzerai Anarch has legendary actions. Etc etc.

Oh, but actually, I did find an NPC sample statblock that has legendary sctions: the Warlord NPC from VGtM! What say you to that?