Level Up (A5E) What is off the table?

Most of this discussion is about what Level Up could be. I'd be curious what Level Up absolutely will not be. (And please stick to the TTRPG environment. I'm not looking for a list of silly things Level Up will not be. It's not a dessert topping!)
 

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I don't think Level up should be an attempt to turn 5E into another edition, nor should it be an attempt to radically change the rules. How I picture Level up, it should be something that any group of 5E players can pick up and add to their sessions. They should be able to use it right out of the box, with their knowledge of 5E rules. It should not be incompatible with those rules.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
Most of this discussion is about what Level Up could be. I'd be curious what Level Up absolutely will not be. (And please stick to the TTRPG environment. I'm not looking for a list of silly things Level Up will not be. It's not a dessert topping!)
I think it won't be a balance or rule fixing exercise.

Which is a shame, because that is my primary wish for 5e, but also right for the niche this particular product aims to fill.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Well, I don't think it should be a new game. If you make it a new game, you might as well throw it on the small pile of games that have gotten a curiosity glance and a few purchases, but no long-standing growth. If you make 5E's version of Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed... it will have the staying power of that book. Which is... almost nothing.

Whereas if the book actually does what it sounds like it's supposed to-- take everything in the Player's Handbook as fact and then build and expand upon everything... make each part more comprehensive, potentially more elaborate, and most importantly able to be added piecemeal... then maybe you might have something. The DMG has all manner of Variant Rules in their books... but little to no explanation on how these building blocks can be used and incorporated to create specific types of gamestyles or gameplay. You would hope that A5E would do that. Make these Variant Rules packages bigger. More expressive. And then as part of a section in the book, use all those rules you made to build combinations to be able to actually recreate truer versions of "3E" or "4E' or "Basic" or all the versions of D&D that WotC originally said their intentions of 5E were to do. If you can accomplish what WotC originally suggested they wanted... then you might have something long-standing because you'll have a whole huge swathe of players who will thank you for it.

But if it all just ends up being nothing more than a crapton more subclasses and class "fixes" but written up as part of an entirely new "Player's Handbook"... that stuff would be no different than any corrections, additions, and fixes we can already buy individually on DMsGuild right now. And we wouldn't have to spent the extra $50 for the re-writing of huge swathes of the current PHB so it can be "it's own game" to get it.
 
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aco175

Legend
I think some of the sacred cows are off the table. Things that have been around so long that removing them would make something not recognizable as D&D or even 5e. Examples are AC, HP, the 6 stats.
 

Well, I don't think it should be a new game. If you make it a new game, you might as well throw it on the small pile of games that have gotten a curiosity glance and a few purchases, but no long-standing growth. If you make 5E's version of Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed... it will have the staying power of that book. Which is... almost nothing.

Apples and Oranges I think. I think they are looking for the staying power of Pathfinder. But MCAU (a truly awesome setting) was a complete gutting of 3.0, replacing the entire class, race, and spell subsystems. There is no fireball spell in MCAU. There is no fighter class in MCAU. They aren't going THAT far. They are using the same D&D class/race/spell set and just rejigging the way they all work.
 


glass

(he, him)
Apples and Oranges I think. I think they are looking for the staying power of Pathfinder. But MCAU (a truly awesome setting) was a complete gutting of 3.0, replacing the entire class, race, and spell subsystems. There is no fireball spell in MCAU. There is no fighter class in MCAU. They aren't going THAT far. They are using the same D&D class/race/spell set and just rejigging the way they all work.
In theory, if you wanted a Fighter or a Fireball in Arcana Unearther/Evolved, it was as easy as importing it from 3.0/3.5. In practice it was not quite that smooth, but Level Up <=> 5e PHB could be that smooth if they did it right.

I think "Arcana Evolved but slightly easier to use alongside the original PHB" is a good model for Level Up. And my interest in it is more-or-less proportional to the extent that it fits that description. EDIT: Either that or a dessert topping.

_
glass.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Apples and Oranges I think. I think they are looking for the staying power of Pathfinder. But MCAU (a truly awesome setting) was a complete gutting of 3.0, replacing the entire class, race, and spell subsystems. There is no fireball spell in MCAU. There is no fighter class in MCAU. They aren't going THAT far. They are using the same D&D class/race/spell set and just rejigging the way they all work.
Well, that's what I would hope. But there are other threads here on the boards talking all about the complete revamping of classes even going so far as to rename everything. Now obviously Morrus will be deciding whether or not to go along with those ideas that people have tossed out in those threads... but my point was mainly to discourage him from following their suggestions. Because I don't think those ideas are serving the purpose of what I've gathered this book is supposed to be. This is Advanced 5E, not Alternate 5E. And hopefully people remember that when they throw out all their suggestions on what the book should include.
 


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