Level Up (A5E) Strength vs Dexterity imbalance cannot be solved without addressing the Melee vs Ranged Imbalance.

[DND_Reborn]

***There really needs to be a thrown weapon feat!

Agreed.

Long Thrower
You gain a +1 attack bonus with throwing a weapon in which you are proficient. When you use a thrown weapon, your normal range is tripled and your long range is doubled. You can also draw your weapon to throw it as part of the attack.

Too much, too little? shrug

My one suggestion to mitigating ranged combat if you deem necessary would be giving a -2 attack penalty if ally is adjacent to enemy (penalty isn't removed by sharpshooter).

Don't they already receive a +2 AC bonus for half cover?

 

[Horwath]

Long Thrower
You gain a +1 attack bonus with throwing a weapon in which you are proficient. When you use a thrown weapon, your normal range is tripled and your long range is doubled. You can also draw your weapon to throw it as part of the attack.

Too much, too little? shrug

I would make it like this;

+1 STR or DEX
+1 size of damage die when throwing melee weapons. I.E. 1d6->1d8
short range = long range, double long range.
drew thrown weapons for free during attack.

or drop +1 ASI and make it a fighting style.

 

[Charlaquin]

The idea behind adding strength to damage with bows and crossbows is that a stronger character can draw/load a higher pound bow. If you want to go full simulationist, you could have bows with different poundage that have minimum strength requirements and damage bonuses. So, for example, your basic bow would have a minimum strength of 10 and a +0 damage modifier. For every +1 you add, increase the strength requirement by 2, or if you need a bow your 8 strength character can use, it has -1 to damage. Of course, that amounts to a lot of extra bookkeeping for an effect that is functionally not any different than just adding Strength mod to bow attacks, so you just have them do that and assume characters always buy bows that are appropriate for their Strength.

The same logic can more or less be applied to crossbows. Granted, you can use assistive devices like windlasses to allow you to load crossbows of much greater weight than you would otherwise be able to, but ultimately a stronger person could still handle a higher-pound crossbow. Give crossbows a bigger damage die than bows to account for the mechanical assistance, and you’re good to go.

Firearms are a different matter. I don’t think there’s any reasonable way to justify strength increasing damage with firearms. My preference is instead to make firearms force a Dex save. Casters get the choice between cantrips that require spell attacks and cantrips that force a save, this would offer martials a choice between weapons that require weapon attacks and weapons that force a save. The DC could be 8 + Dex mod + Prof bonus, and the firearm would do no damage on a successful save.

 

[Horwath]

The idea behind adding strength to damage with bows and crossbows is that a stronger character can draw/load a higher pound bow. If you want to go full simulationist, you could have bows with different poundage that have minimum strength requirements and damage bonuses. So, for example, your basic bow would have a minimum strength of 10 and a +0 damage modifier. For every +1 you add, increase the strength requirement by 2, or if you need a bow your 8 strength character can use, it has -1 to damage. Of course, that amounts to a lot of extra bookkeeping for an effect that is functionally not any different than just adding Strength mod to bow attacks, so you just have them do that and assume characters always by bows that are appropriate for their Strength.

The same logic can more or less be applied to crossbows. Granted, you can use assistive devices like windlasses to allow you to load crossbows of much greater weight than you would otherwise be able to, but ultimately a stronger person could still handle a higher-pound crossbow. Give crossbows a bigger damage die than bows to account for the mechanical assistance, and you’re good to go.

Firearms are a different matter. I don’t think there’s any reasonable way to justify strength increasing damage with firearms. My preference is instead to make firearms force a Dex save. Casters get the choice between cantrips that require spell attacks and cantrips that force a save, this would offer martials a choice between weapons that require weapon attacks and weapons that force a save. The DC could be 8 + Dex mod + Prof bonus, and the firearm would do no damage on a successful save.

again, str bonus to damage has no sense, but base damage depending on strength has.

Yes, you can say that 1d8+2 IS base damage, but to be consistent with 5E, it is better that the base be 1d12 instead of 1d8+2, even if both average out 6,5. but 1d12 is better for crits, and 1d8+2 is more reliable.

and bows simply do not work good if they are not pulled back all the way.

 

[FrogReaver]

Your the one who specifically chose to claim that firebolt has better dpr than a fighter with a bow.. Your going to need to explain your math to come up with less dpr from this (1d10+MOD)+( d10+MOD) at up to 150 feet of range
View attachment 125120
than this
View attachment 125121
2d10+nothing no second attack/second bolt.

Listing dpR numbers is meaningless if they are so obviously wrong that they fail to include things like a fighter's extra attack but are comparing a fighter to a wizard. What you excellently raise however is how bad 5e's cantrips are for full casters because cantrips have all of their scaling built into the cantrip by character level rather than meaningful class abilities like the extra attack feature sneak attack & so on. It's a situation that favors a gishy build & prevents casters from developing that on their own in a way notably different from a gish

as to your bizarre inclusion of warlock & attempt to jump from wizard to warlock, you'll get no argument that eldritch blast is anything but broken on ways thst complicate other areas so don't waste everyone's time when it was raised all the way back on page 1 where I agreed in detail. Otherwise... don't waste everyone's time with damage per round comparisons between a fighter who takes archery style with a 10 in their relevant stat or stats that doesn't bother with extra attack.

This included extra attack and no Dex bonus damage. That was what my post was about. No idea what you are going on about.

 

[CubicsRube]

I'd probably just make a longbow have a STR minimum requirement, say STR13.

Otherwise, a PC has to use a shortbow or a crossbow.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'd probably just make a longbow have a STR minimum requirement, say STR13.

Otherwise, a PC has to use a shortbow or a crossbow.

what’s the hand crossbow str requirement?

 

[glass]

The old range increments had a range increment of X, you could jump that up to 5x with any raged weapon at a cost of -2 each time. That made the longbow have 100ft range no penalties but you could do 200/300/400/500 by taking -2-4/-6/-8/-10 but because the second/third/etc attack were made at -5/-10/-15/etc penalty you were almost certain to dramatcally drop your dpr as you went past the first range increment. By comparison the 5e longbow is 150/ 600 What you couldn't even do with a -10 penalty due to 5x range increment cap 5e lets you do with mere proficiency while bumping the short range too. That might not sound impressive if you are a full martial class with a long bow, but there were plenty of folks who lacked those & were limited to much shorter ranges.

Minor correction: Projectile weapons went up to 10 range incremements in 3.x (five was for thrown weapons). So you could shoot something 600 ft away at -10. Also while I am in a nitpicky mood, you forgot to start counting the penalties from the second incremement rather than the first; up to 500 ft (actually more likely 550 since it will most likely be a composite longbow) the penalty is only -8.

Does anyone want to go back to 4e where you use your main stat for attack and damage. Wizards attacking with their dagger using Intelligence for example (without going into why he is using a dagger).

Wizards stabbing with their dagger used Dex or Strength. Wizards attacking with their spells used Int for attack and damage.

There was a feat they could take to get Int to dagger weapon attacks if they really want, but they are fairly unlikely to bother, given that the typical wizard does not want to be within dagger range of anything dangerous!

_
glass.

 

[CubicsRube]

what’s the hand crossbow str requirement?

Hmm? Hand crossbow probably nothing. Pistol crossbows are quite easy to reload.

But it depends on what you want to acheive. I'd put slings, hand crossbows and shirtbows without a requirement so anyone can use them

 

[tetrasodium]

This included extra attack and no Dex bonus damage. That was what my post was about. No idea what you are going on about.

Then your complaint is meaningless because it exempts the rest of the attacks in the fighter's attack action and the dex bonus damage any fighter bothering with archery fighting style. Why are you wasting precious electrons to transmit a meaningless partial attack comparison to a fire bolt that csn not be split. What possible point could you be making that requires pretending the extra shot wont be made in a damage per ROUND comparison?

@glass thanks