D&D General Greyhawk and "Low Magic" : Why Low Magic is in the Eyes of Beholder

[Urriak Uruk]

Definitely. There can't be more than around two dozen 'random' encounters in the entirety of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings combined. By the rules in the 1e DMG pg 47 there can be as many as six in one day in the wilderness, though one every 1-3 days is more likely. (1 in 10 chance, checked 2-6 times per day depending on terrain).

Yeah, I think in the Hobbit when they go in Mirkwood (which I think is stated as the most dangerous forest in the world), they only run into the spiders? There are other effects I think like the sleepiness and things, but I believe the spiders is the only "monsters" they meet there.

That sounds pretty easy compared to going through a Greyhawk forest.

 

[Helldritch]

So this may not be the right thread for this question, but it's the one I'm quoting in - and can always be expanded later.

You've clearly spent a lot of time with Greyhawk. Know it, know what you like (and what you don't) probably have extensive notes on what you have run and what you'd like to run - with backup from your favorite iteration of Greyhawk as presented.

Other then a sense of completeness that they've officially put Greyhawk inot 5e (and, sure, I understand that) - what could a Greyhawk worldbook actually offer you?

I ask that, because if they'd release a 5e Greyhawk worldbook, I'd buy it, but I'm not sure what it would actually offer for me that I don't already have.

It would help me a lot. I no longer have the time to adapt everything to 5ed. Having WotC do it for me would be great. They have a whole team of game designer that will be able to adapt and refresh the setting. I do have extensive notes, but I prefer to have common ground when speaking with other DM. Though the 3.5ed adaptation was meh, I bought it so I could discuss the setting with other DMs in my area and even abroad.

I am not the purist that sticks only to the 1983 box set. From the Ashes was great and it is the definitive reference for my games. But in these threads, the 1983 box set is clearly the reference that is used. So this what I refer to. It is a common ground that we cam all understand. Not everyone bought the From the Ashes box set. That is why I stick to the 1983. I believe it was a wise decision by Snarf to do it this way.

If Wizards makes an update to the setting and they can respect the 1983 and the From the Ashes box, I would be quite happy and grateful.

 

[grimslade]

So much of what makes Greyhawk feel low magic and occasionally grim and gritty, to me, was the rules for magic in 1E. Magic had costs. You had limited slots and many of the good spells had financial, as well as physical costs. Resurrection had a chance to fail and cost constitution if successful. Healing was a trade-off for using other spells. Magic users were frail at lower levels. You weren't going to have apprentices casting Light on the lamposts in Greyhawk City because a xvart might sneeze and kill them or a piqued kitten.

Greyhawk would translate into 5E, but it would be 5E Greyhawk with all that comes with the core rules. There would be Dragonborn from the Amedio Jungle and tieflings from the Horned Society and Iuz. The setting can stretch to accommodate a lot of different play styles and still be Greyhawk. Tone is not only found in rules. Magic is strong in Greyhawk. There are all sorts of organizations that try to limit exposure of magic to the world. The Silent Ones, The Darkwatch, and the Sea Mages all seek to limit arcane power and artifacts in the Sheldomar Valley alone.

 

[Hussar]

Something to pay attention to too when comparing Grehawk to FR is when people talk about there being a wizard under every bush in Forgotten Realms, it's because FR has an order of magnitude more material written for it than GH. Hundreds of novels, dozens and dozens of sourcebooks. We're talking tens of thousands of pages of setting details have been produced for Forgotten Realms whereas GH has probably less and a couple of thousand at a stretch, if we include novels and every single scrap.

It's not so much that FR has more wizards per se, it's just that FR has more EVERYTHING. All those tons of details.

One thing I'm curious about that I've never seen compared - how big is Greyhawk compared to, say, The Sword Coast. I've seen comparisons between the real world and FR - the Sword Coast is about the size of a fair chunk of the continental United States - ie, freaking HUGE.

Just how big is Greyhawk compared to FR? Note, I don't mean Oerth compared to Faerun since most of Oerth isn't detailed. There's some non-canon bits outside of the Greyhawk area, but, largely, we don't know what's out there.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It would help me a lot. I no longer have the time to adapt everything to 5ed.

But what exactly do you think needs adapting? The original World of Greyhawk folio/box contains no rules crunch, and therefore there is nothing to adapt.

 

[Helldritch]

But what exactly do you think needs adapting? The original World of Greyhawk folio/box contains no rules crunch, and therefore there is nothing to adapt.

As I said in an other thread, I am not a purist that swears by the 1983 box set. As this is the set that is refered to, I talked about this set in this thread (and in the others) for ease of reference and for common ground. If you take the From the Ashes, a lot is in there with the Mark lands, Iuz the Evil, The Scarlet Brotherhood expansion, Ivid the Undying and Rary the traitor and the bright desert... Yep there is a lot of material.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

As I said in an other thread, I am not a purist that swears by the 1983 box set. As this is the set that is refered to, I talked about this set in this thread (and in the others) for ease of reference and for common ground. If you take the From the Ashes, a lot is in there with the Mark lands, Iuz the Evil, The Scarlet Brotherhood expansion, Ivid the Undying and Rary the traitor and the bright desert... Yep there is a lot of material.

But Iuz, Scarlet Brotherhood etc is all fluff though. None of it is rules, so none of it needs to be "converted" to 5e.

 

[Helldritch]

Something to pay attention to too when comparing Grehawk to FR is when people talk about there being a wizard under every bush in Forgotten Realms, it's because FR has an order of magnitude more material written for it than GH. Hundreds of novels, dozens and dozens of sourcebooks. We're talking tens of thousands of pages of setting details have been produced for Forgotten Realms whereas GH has probably less and a couple of thousand at a stretch, if we include novels and every single scrap.

It's not so much that FR has more wizards per se, it's just that FR has more EVERYTHING. All those tons of details.

One thing I'm curious about that I've never seen compared - how big is Greyhawk compared to, say, The Sword Coast. I've seen comparisons between the real world and FR - the Sword Coast is about the size of a fair chunk of the continental United States - ie, freaking HUGE.

Just how big is Greyhawk compared to FR? Note, I don't mean Oerth compared to Faerun since most of Oerth isn't detailed. There's some non-canon bits outside of the Greyhawk area, but, largely, we don't know what's out there.

For an order of magnitude, the Greyhawk map is 4500 miles x 3000 miles (or about 150 hexes by 100 hexes). That is big about 4 times (more or less) the size of USA (not counting Alaska).

 

[Helldritch]

But Iuz, Scarlet Brotherhood etc is all fluff though. None of it is rules, so none of it needs to be "converted" to 5e.

So... If I go by your logic... Theros, Ravnica, The Sword Coast, Eberron and whatever did not need a 5ed book? If you read these books, a lot of material is in there. How do you adapt the animus? What happened to Hextor's church in the splintered Great Kindom? What about the Scarlet Brotherhood? In the wake of the 5ed, there are bound to have been some major change as two of the three leading classes are now just rogue subclasses. If you take a moment to check, there are a lot to adapt and put back into 5ed perspective.

Again, I am not a purist that keeps to the 1983 box set. Even the 3.5 edition has a lot in there that needs attentions.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So... If I go by your logic... Theros, Ravnica, The Sword Coast, Eberron and whatever did not need a 5ed book?

Theros, Ravnica, and Eberron all have setting specific rules. e.g. Dragonmarks cannot work the same way in 5e as 3e.

Theros and Ravnica are new settings, there is no fluff from previous editions.

SCAG is pretty useless, I make more use of my 3rd edition FR book and FR Wiki.

If you read these books, a lot of material is in there. How do you adapt the animus?

If there are rules for it then it would need adapting. So that's one thing so far.

What happened to Hextor's church in the splintered Great Kingdom? What about the Scarlet Brotherhood? In the wake of the 5ed, there are bound to have been some major change as two of the three leading classes are now just rogue subclasses. If you take a moment to check, there are a lot to adapt and put back into 5ed perspective.

Now you are talking about something completely different. That's not adapting, that's advancing the timeline. And whether or not to do that is extremely controversial. Many Greyhawk fans do not like later additions to the setting, and would rather the timeline be reset, which is what ERFTLW does, and what GoS seems to do.

Again, I am not a purist that keeps to the 1983 box set. Even the 3.5 edition has a lot in there that needs attentions.

You might not be a purist, but many Greyhawk fans are. Who should WotC try to please? The Greyhawk fans who want to keep the later stuff, or those who would prefer the clock to be reset? Who is right?