D&D 5E Working on a Warlord Full Class

[Paul Farquhar]

Instead of saying hit points cannot go in 4e terms higher than a healing surge more than its normal value and they reset at the end of rest?

I don't know what 4e did, but 2e was an exploitable mess and 3e a nightmare of record keeping.

 

[Garthanos]

I don't know what 4e did, but 2e was an exploitable mess and 3e a nightmare of record keeping.

My reaction was when I saw them in 4e (My previous D&D was AD&D) and I am thinking 4e did temp hitpoints pretty much the same as 5e (though they had some special cases at one point for a particular build of fighter who could stack them). Shrug no biggy.

 

[Undrave]

Any progress? I might post a new version of mine...

 

[Garthanos]

I want to double down on that thought of making a Full Warlord one parent of the Battlemaster instead of using it's own dice make maneuvers the primary class feature. So that the battlemaster is a multi-class just like the eldritch knight is a prebuilt multiclass of arcane caster and fighter.

 

[Xeviat]

I want to double down on that thought of making a Full Warlord one parent of the Battlemaster instead of using it's own dice make maneuvers the primary class feature. So that the battlemaster is a multi-class just like the eldritch knight is a prebuilt multiclass of arcane caster and fighter.

I really like that idea myself. I have an odd thing about too many novel mechanics. You could easily track a superiority dice mechanic against spell points divided by three, and bam you have a "full caster" warlord.

I also like temp hp for a Warlord because it makes their healing combat oriented. One of the Subclasses can be more of a medic and have actual hp recovery.

 

[Garthanos]

I really like that idea myself. I have an odd thing about too many novel mechanics. You could easily track a superiority dice mechanic against spell points divided by three, and bam you have a "full caster" warlord.

I also like temp hp for a Warlord because it makes their healing combat oriented. One of the Subclasses can be more of a medic and have actual hp recovery.

I have an idea for a Blood of Kings feat so that temp hit points you grant when the subject is below full hit points are treated as normal healing. So some King Arthur dripping with the magic of kings is just plain healing.

 

[the Jester]

First of all, thanks for the input to everyone who has posted.

About the battlemaster- Although I have nothing against the idea if it fits someone else's vision of their version of the warlord, I have no interest in making my warlord a fighter subclass, nor do I want to shift the battlemaster from being a fighter subclass to being a warlord subclass.

About "how vs. why" regarding subclasses- I think the distinction is an interesting one, but after considerable reflection, I think I'm going to have to disagree, at least in this case, that it is one that will improve the design. After asking myself, "What is a warlord subclass?", I keep coming back to a fundamental and simple description that is definitely a "how", not a "why". And that is that a warlord subclass is a style of leadership. A "why" would be, I think, too narrow for what I am going for for this class and its subclasses.

Now then- regarding further progress.

I haven't spent a lot of time working on this for the last few weeks, but much of the time I have spent has been used in thinking about possible 'ribbon' abilities, i.e. those that aren't strictly combat abilities.

So here's what I have done recently, starting with the description for subclasses:

LEADERSHIP STYLES
When you reach 3rd level, you choose a leadership style. This style informs how you direct and aid your allies. Some leadership styles rely on Intelligence to make good tactical choices, while others rely on Charisma to inspire the actions of people. Still others might use either type to lead allies into making superior choices.

Then the start of one of the subclasses:

BACK RANK LEADER
The back rank leader is focused on directing allies rather than joining battle herself. A warlord who appears to be a helpless bystander, such as a frail princess or defenseless merchant, is usually a back rank leader. Such a warlord incites others to attack and helps them focus their defenses. A back rank leader is the type of warlord most likely to have low Strength and Constitution scores, and often has high mental abilities. Most back rank leader abilities can derive from either Intelligence or Charisma, so a back rank leader can function through either inspiring others or through tactical acumen.
TACTICAL DEFENSE: Beginning when you choose this leadership style at 3rd level, you can aid the defenses of your allies. By using your action to call out instructions to an ally within 60' that you can see and that can see and hear you, you can grant that ally a bonus to AC equal to your Int or Cha bonus. This effect lasts until the start of your next turn or until you become unable to see the target, you or the target become incapacitated, or until the target can no longer see and hear you.
EXCELLENT COMMUNICATOR: Starting at 6th level, you become an expert at communication. You learn to speak, understand, write, and read 3 languages of your choice. In addition, you are able to communicate even with creatures with whom you don't share a language, provided that creature speaks at least one language and you and that creature can hear and see each other. Such communication takes ten times longer than normal verbal communication.
Furthermore, you can learn a new language by spending 30 days of downtime with a trainer, rather than needing 250 days.

Finally, here's the sketchiest of outlines of other potential ribbon abilities for the various subclasses that I've conceived so far:

Dirty Tricks-

use/enable dirty tricks and status effects
6th: Ribbon: Expertise in Deception, gain prof in disguise kit

Marshal- aura-based effects
6th: Ribbon: Aura grants bonus to Int and Cha checks within or against creatures in the aura.

White Raven- emphasis on moving allies/triggering attacks on a hit; fights
6th: Ribbon: Expend leadership die to grant expertise in one skill/tool for 10 minutes

Wolfpack Leader- gang up style; fights
6th: Ribbon: group benefits after short rest 1/day- lose exhaustion/regain spell slot/etc

 

[Garthanos]

About the battlemaster- Although I have nothing against the idea if it fits someone else's vision of their version of the warlord, I have no interest in making my warlord a fighter subclass, nor do I want to shift the battlemaster from being a fighter subclass to being a warlord subclass.

I do not think you understand the idea.

The Eldritch Knight is a subclass of fighter which represents a Fighter/Wizard.
I was suggesting the Warlord as full class then causes the Battlemaster to retroactively be a subclass of Fighter which represents the Fighter/Warlord.

Now the idea may not be awesome but that is the thought

 

[NotAYakk]

I do not think you understand the idea.

The Eldritch Knight is a subclass of fighter which represents a Fighter/Wizard.
I was suggesting the Warlord as full class then causes the Battlemaster to retroactively be a subclass of Fighter which represents the Fighter/Warlord.

Now the idea may not be awesome but that is the thought

Yes, you take the Battlemaster mechanics.

And you make the Warlord that times 3, minus Fighter baseline.

EK have very few spell slots (Wizard fuel) and a restricted set of Wizard abilities to pick from.

BM will have very few Warlord ability fuel (maybe superiority dice), and have a restricted set of Warlord abilities (its maneuvers) to pick from.

On top of that, Wizard has features that enhance its spellcasting, both core and subclasses, that the EK lacks. The EK has a handful of spellcasting+melee hybrid abilities that the Wizard lacks.

---

Using that approach, you'd rename LEADERSHIP DICE into Superiority Dice, and the "tier 1-1.5" abilities would be similar to the battlemaster abilities from level 1 to 20. At level 20, a BM has something like 6d12/short rest; the warlord could have similar power scale by level 7.

EK has 1st level spells at 3, 2nd at 7, 3rd at 13 and 4th at 19.
BM has 4d8 dice at 3, 5d8 at 7, 5d10 at 10, 6d10 at 15 and 6d12 at 18.

We then scale for a "Pure Warlord" and we'd get something like:

4d8 at level 1
5d8 at level 3
5d10 at level 5
6d10 at level 6
6d12 at level 7

Now we could refactor further.

The Warlord could get at-will or per-turn superiority dice right out the gate, the BMs "per short rest" dice being an inferior version of them.

Level 1: 1d6 at-will superiority die per turn
Level 3: 1d8 per turn
Level 5: 2d10 per turn
Level 7: 2d12 per turn
Level 9: 3d12 per turn.

then level 11+ abilities would be a phase change. (Refresh at end of turn, because Warlords are all about that sweet off-turn boosts. Only the dice you don't burn on other people end up coming back to you, to mop up on your turn).

---

This isn't making a BM into a full class, nor is it making the BM a subclass of Warlord.

It is using the structure of the BM and retroactively making the BM a hybrid Fighter-Warlord to make the Warlord feel more naturally part of 5e.

 

[the Jester]

I do not think you understand the idea.

The Eldritch Knight is a subclass of fighter which represents a Fighter/Wizard.
I was suggesting the Warlord as full class then causes the Battlemaster to retroactively be a subclass of Fighter which represents the Fighter/Warlord.

Now the idea may not be awesome but that is the thought

Well, the problem with that is that not all battlemasters have anything like a warlord ability- without checking my PH, I think only Commander's Strike (which is a very popular option) is a warlordish ability. It's easy to make a battlemaster that looks nothing at all like a warlord.

I don't mind that level of overlap, but I don't think it's the same level of overlap as, for instance, eldritch knight has with wizard. I certainly don't think it warrants redesigning the warlord to use superiority dice, and I rather like SD being a battlemaster niche thing. Also, given that the leadership dice work very differently than superiority dice, I think using them in my warlord will be more confusing rather than less confusing.

That said, we'll see where things go as I continue. I may change my tune if future elements of the class' design seem to fit better with the SD model.